Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[Chippy_boy]

Yes but even then we cannot reverse us leaving anyway unless all other member state allow us to stay in a vote and I could see them only doingthat if we gave up a lot of the veto's and consessions we had.

If we even applied to rejoin they would only allow it if we joined the central bank amd adopted the single currency, along with other rules we are exempt from now.

Who knows. I would think they're desperate for us to not leave and would agree to all of that and perhaps even more concessions. But it's speculation either way, isn't it.

Watching the TV just now and some of the May cartoons, the comment was made "she really is a gift, isn't she" (i.e. for cartoonists).

Labour must also realise what a gift she is. We can go on about how well Corbyn has done, or perhaps speculate that a more moderate Labour leader would perhaps have done even better, who knows.

But we must surely all agree, that a better Tory leader would have achieved a better result than May. It's impossible for me to imagine a Tory campaign being worse than this one, and had only a few more seats been won or retained, we'd have a Tory majority and full steam ahead on Tory policies, despite Corbyn's efforts.

That would made Damocles' arguments even more powerful. So when you think about it, it's wrong to conclude that all the positives coming out of the Labour campaign are down to some new wave; some of it is simply down to Conservative ineptitude.

 

[adrianr]

Cannot see any party being that stupid, especially the labour party while on an upward trajectory.

A lot are fed up with constant elections and voting, another referendum would piss off the public and anyone calling it would be onto a loser.

I think if anyone is being serious about a second referendum, pending the practicalities of negotiating and then potentially reneging, is when we know *exactly* what is on the table for leaving. This has been twisted something chronic since before the referendum, with people bending a simple yes or no vote into all kinds of permutations about what kind of Brexit the people actually voted for. If after 2 years of negotiations the government can come to the people and say "Right, you asked to leave, these are the terms we've negotiated - Should we proceed?", then for the first time we could make a reasonably informed choice.

I think if a second referendum were ran tomorrow we would vote to stay, but it would suffer all the same lies and deliberate misleading that the first one did, and would leave all the same fractured questions and what ifs that the first one did.

On another note, it was interesting to hear that in the wake of her two advisers resigning, someone on the BBC was talking about how May had a 'closed and secret way of governing', chiefly why the party have seized their opportunity to boot them out whilst their hand is strong. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that the most authoritarian PM in recent memory, wanting to be able to look into and record every facet of our lives online, control online discussion, and break encryption, is actually a very secretive and private person. Do as I say, not as I do.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Your assertion that a more moderate leader would have swept Labour into power is utter bollocks. In fact. I can't believe anyone could believe such tosh.

Labour nearly won because Corbyn energised so many people. If any of they Tory lite wankers, including your own mayor had been there no one would have given a fuck with their watered down Tory philosophy.

This was too soon for Cirbyn but he has lit a fire of hope and that as the months pass will engulf the Tories.

People are excited by the prospect of a real choice. The tide has turned.

Put your wetsuit and googles on.

Please wake up and smell the coveffe.

We have had enough with the Andy Panders of this world. Using the right wing press to try and remove the only threat to all they hold dear.

Some may forgive him and the other 79 Tory collaborating bastards like him in the PLP, but not me.

Corbyn is a much more forgiving man than me so he may extend a hand to them. If I had to for the good of the party I would let them know I thought they were cowards for how they behaved, that the vote showed who the country wanted and to start working for the party or do the honourable thing and get themselves to fuck.

A few of my most hated I would offer a square go for the opportunity to punch fuck out of them.

It us for these reasons I have never held high political office.

I can that many people think like you do. Not enough however, clearly.

 

[sir baconface]

Sad bastard ;-)

I find the results interesting too, all over the country, and I think the graphic tells a big story about the regional differences, and in some cases even individual local results tell a differing story, but the SE is a huge change towards labour, and UKIP weren't overly popular in London to start with, but its still a big shift to labour anyway, and in many seats May targetted a few weeks ago. Even my own constituency, one of the most conservative in the country (@14500 majority this time) the serving MP actually increased his vote, but there was still a substantial swing towards labour. Its been conservative since 1923 by the way.

The dynamics at micro level are quite complex. Our first-past-the-post system can often suppress swings but just occasionally magnify them.

Take Kent as an example. All 17 constituencies are almost always Conservative and were predicted to remain so. Owing to the generally large majorities, moderate shifts towards Labour make fcuk all difference. However Canterbury bucked the trend owing to unique circumstances. The massive student vote was mobilised (some would say "bought"), producing a 20.5% swing to Labour. For the first time in the constituency's 99-year history it has a Labour MP and made national headlines.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

From the late 70s Thatcher moved the political conversation to the right. Blair positioned himself as a centrist but he was still way to the right of any previous Labour leader. Thatcher acknowleged this. The Tories have moved even further to the right under pressure from Ukip.

All Corbyn is doing is trying to move the conversation back to something less austere and extreme.

Don't think the public want another dose of centre right Labouism.

Blair was to the right of some Tory leaders let alone Labour ones, particularly late-period Heath.

But I'll make the point again that "centrist" in the Thatcher/Blair era meant a less extreme version of the right-wing, free-market philosophy that Thatcher introduced. In other words, the concept of 'the market' was accepted as part of the consensus but Blair tempered it with an element of social justice. But there's no centre in the scenario we have now. It's either-or. Public services have been cut to the bone with more to come. What is the "centre position" in this situation?

The only alternative is to reverse it, not temper it a bit.

 

[Magicpole]

E

Agree completely now its time for you Scots to get back to voting labour and the job can be completed ;-)[/QUOTE

OTE]

 

[Hart of the Matter]

Doesn't seems to be a problem in Canterbury and Kensington plus others which were won.
Fortunately we are moving away from the back end of the middle of the road Labour guff that Tony Blair was pushing,
He was good at the start and stuck to the core Labour policy but slowly his Thatcher wet dream emerged and damaged the party for a long time.

No you are not, far from it but you are so far detached from the core Labour policies you have no idea what you are spouting. Why exactly are you in the Labour party? What you have written would see someone opposed to the currently useless NEC banned from the party as was seen by many people who were barred from voting in that leadership campaign. That by way, was the most vicious and counter-effective campaign against one person seen anywhere for a long long time. The absolute shite them and the PLP pulled made this campaign as difficult as anything the press pulled. It was a horrendous attack on any form of a fair election. The fact that Owen Smith was blown out of the water showed the NEC and PLP are as removed from reality as they are from the membership. You think for half a second Owen Smith would have won this election? Dont make me laugh. With friends like you nobody needs enemies, whoever they are. Blairism is firmly dead.
Then a couple of paragraphs of bollocks to try and justified such as misshaped view.



Never believe your own shite, you are nothing to do with left and are fucking useless.
If you want to be involved in some party that wants to ver from left to right go and form one, dont worry, you will be leader and it will be you in it.



Without a shadow of a doubt by the end he was. As has been said many times



You forgot number 1 by a mile, the needless waste of a year by fuckwits who didn't their own way and actively tried to sabotage Corbyn and directly shell the party and put them on the lowest ratings ever. Something the media have been happy to exploit ever since. To come back from that back stabbing, of which Tom Watson is one of the king snakes, was a superb effort and it is that, that people are pleased about. Once Corbyn could get on with doing what was needed to shred this weak and terrorist loving government, the figure show he had a better swing in voting than Tony Thatcher. You only have to watch this video to see that the rank and file middle of the roaders, literally have no idea what is going on and more than a few need to publically apologise. Fair play to Owen Smith for doing that.

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There would be far far less than 200 seats for Labour if they had not fought back on the social media.

You are clearly upset that Labour lost the election we all are, however, you seemed twice as pained to see Labour (or rather more specifically Corbyn) have come out of the campaign on a far stronger footing. Always remember, once a scab, always a scab ;)



It has been a hard week for him realising all that he thought was right about the Labour has been pulled apart, both within and without of the party.

I was hopefull that the trolling and vitriol from the momentum people would let up. I am happy to get behind Corbyn now but for you to 'cast out' a fellow member and take a hostile position is why we will never win. Do you believe in a broad church? I guess not.

 

[Magicpole]

Agree completely now its time for you Scots to get back to voting labour and the job can be completed ;-)

Even if all 57 seats went to labour it wouldn't be enough. Still more needs to be done in Engkand. But it's starting.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

The dynamics at micro level can be quite complex. Our first-past-the-post system can often suppress swings but just occasionally magnify them.

Take Kent as an example. All 17 constituencies are almost always Conservative and predicted to remain so. Owing to the generally large majorities, moderate shifts towards Labour make fcuk all difference. However Canterbury bucked the trend owing to unique circumstances. The massive student vote was mobilised (some would say "bought"), producing a 20.5% swing to Labour. For the first time in the constituency's 99-year history it has a Labour MP and made national headlines.

I can't believe how the commentators are saying and analysing how the young vote came out in large numbers and swung the vote when the old vote didn't for the Tories.

If I was 18ish and at uni and someone was going to give me 28k then I would vote for that.

Equally if I am over 65 why would I vote to have my fuel allowance to be taken off me and lose my triple lock. never the mind the merits s of the debate, you would simply sit at home And put the kettle other than go and vote, or vote labour.


I also do not have any idea how may has been to see the queen to form a government when she has not done a deal with the dup yet. How the hell does that work?

 

[blue cigar]

I don't despise the left, I'm an active part of it you clown. What I despise are people who want to "wait for the right Government".

I think you're not only arrogant but infinitely worse than this you're cruel. You dare to tell the disadvantaged, the underprivileged and those in poverty that you're fighting for them while purposely serving up policy that you KNOW will never be electable. Rather than attempting to help them, you tell them that they can only be helped on YOUR terms, when the ideology is right for YOU. It's disgusting. Grotesque. A act of vindictive evilness to give hope to the suffering when you have no intention of honouring it. No intention of compromise so that they can live in a little less discomfort. It's always all about you lot and your special little principles that are SO moral that everybody else has to wait and instead heat their houses with the warm glow of your ethical smugness.

If a Tory Government lines up tomorrow that will fund public services to a world class degree, pursue a progressive social agenda and invest in downtrodden communities infrastructure then I'd vote for them in a heartbeat. I'd vote for pretty much any party in the world who would do that. Because it's not about me, not about handwringing about tie colours.

Because it's about making the people who are fucked, less fucked and doing it right now instead of "waiting for the right Government". All of your lot on the far left are a bunch of jumped up self righteous tossers. You are fucking useless to me.

Careful, people have been thread banned for less.
So by your reasoning we should elect a tory lite labour govt that will also do fuck all for the needy. You are scared of change and scared to back your convictions so you moan about the left being cruel because we want a better social system. You are a pathetic specimen. Guess what einstein, there is only one way to get that system and it's the one you deride and say is cruel.
You need to have a think before posting more confused ramblings, in fact, dont bother replying to me, you are an ego driven, look at me moron, worse than a tory.