Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[Chippy_boy]

Typical Tory response, may did shite because of her not so good manifesto, no show on face to face debates because she knew she wouldn't beat Mr corbyn on it , she was drinking tea on a sports field while he was out campaigning, she should do the decent thing and fuck off

You're right, but so is he.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Ultimately it has to be said whether deliverable or not the Labour manifesto and campaign was open to all and looking forward whereas the Tory one was closed and introverted centred on My who rapidly began to look less strong and less stable. I can sum it up by the fat that May held "rallies" in closed industrial units to an invited audience of supporters they bussed in. Corbyn held rallies in City centres to large crowds. In effect if you wanted to go and see May speak you couldn't - it was a closed shop - you weren't allowed in. Corbyn? No bother go down town and attend an open air free gig. That sums up both campaigns and shows why May couldn't command a majority

 

[The perfect fumble]

And you mine, my friend. And you mine.

Had the Tories not run such a diabolically awful campaign with such a dismal leader, your party would have been slaughtered. Because not enough people think that the ideals you support are what they want or what we need. It's as simple as that. Most Labour MP's get this, which is why Corbyn has been so terribly unpopular in his own parliamentary party. Doubtless they will be surprised that he did better than expected, but you still lost against a shockingly bad Tory party after 6 years of austerity. If Corbyn cannot win in that environment, he's peddling the wrong stuff.

The sooner you and people like you start to get your head around that, the sooner you'll have a chance of actually running the country.

You have no understanding of what's going on. The Labour party has to stand for social justice, if it ends up just being a kinder version of Toryism it fails itself but more importantly the people it's supposed to represent.

The party is re-invigorated and more purposeful than it has been for a long time and this election has shown that more and more people get it.

 

[Blue Llama]

It's really not the same thing though. In 2010 the coalition had 363 seats between them and there was a formal arrangement. This one has 328 and no formal agreement. Any time 6 of her MP's vote against anything she loses, anytime she says no to the unionists, she loses. Not only that, if any six fall ill, miss their train or go on holiday, she loses.

Your maths are making the assumption that in these votes, presumably on divisive issues that all the opposition will be of one mind. Considering the diverse make up and that the labour party themselves are not a cohesive unit that's a big assumption to make.

 

[Damocles]

Why? Why wasn't it a possibility? Why are you celebrating a defeat and five more years in opposition?

This.

I voted for Corbyn during both Labour elections and obviously last night. I didn't vote for him because he wears a nice suit, I voted for him because I thought he could win an election. He has not won an election.

You see this is the different between the far left and the centre left of the Party. The far left is full of people who like Pyrrhic victories. They like discussing philosophy such as nuclear disarmament and identity politics. Great, I like those conversations too.

However what I like more is a well funded NHS, building low cost houses and making food banks a thing of the past. And you can't do any of that unless you win an election and that means compromising your opinion on some things.

The far left of the Party feel it's important to talk about policy. Blairites feel it's important to enact policy and the talk is political masturbation if you'll never get elected to enact it.

I want Labour to win elections. I thought Corbyn could energise the youth vote which he did but the collapse of UKIP fucked him and much of the country rejected him. Now I'll have to survey the options but if he forms a more united shadow cabinet then we'll ride with him for a bit as he appears to be growing into the role. If he decides to step aside and anoint a centrist successor who he campaigns hard for then we'll win the next election.

But that's the game. This isn't a joke. There are people on this country, especially those on disabilities and benefits who are fucked. They don't need a far left Labour party up its own arse about its revolution, they need an elected Labour Party in power and making changes. They don't have time for us to fuck about again and we're letting them down.

Jim Smith who's surviving on £40 a week doesn't care about "the movement". He just wants to be able to live his life. We failed him last night and we can't do so again.

 

[The perfect fumble]

This.

I voted for Corbyn during both Labour elections and obviously last night. I didn't vote for him because he wears a nice suit, I voted for him because I thought he could win an election. He has not won an election.

You see this is the different between the far left and the centre left of the Party. The far left is full of people who like Pyrrhic victories. They like discussing philosophy such as nuclear disarmament and identity politics. Great, I like those conversations too.

However what I like more is a well funded NHS, building low cost houses and making food banks a thing of the past. And you can't do any of that unless you win an election and that means compromising your opinion on some things.

The far left of the Party feel it's important to talk about policy. Blairites feel it's important to enact policy and the talk is political masturbation if you'll never get elected to enact it.

I want Labour to win elections. I thought Corbyn could energise the youth vote which he did but the collapse of UKIP fucked him and much of the country rejected him. Bow I'll have to survey the options but if he forms a more united shadow cabinet then we'll ride with him for a bit as he appears to be growing into the role. If he decides to step aside and anoint a centrist successor wgo he campaigns hard for then we'll win the next election.

But that's the game. This isn't a joke. There are people on this country, especially those on disabilities and benefits who are fucked. They don't need a far left Labour party up it's own arse about it's revolution, they need an elected Labour Party in power and making changes. They don't have time for us to fuck about again

Why did Labour lose in 2010 and 2015?

 

[BlueAnorak]

And you mine, my friend. And you mine.

Had the Tories not run such a diabolically awful campaign with such a dismal leader, your party would have been slaughtered. Because not enough people think that the ideals you support are what they want or what we need. It's as simple as that. Most Labour MP's get this, which is why Corbyn has been so terribly unpopular in his own parliamentary party. Doubtless they will be surprised that he did better than expected, but you still lost against a shockingly bad Tory party after 6 years of austerity. If Corbyn cannot win in that environment, he's peddling the wrong stuff.

The sooner you and people like you start to get your head around that, the sooner you'll have a chance of actually running the country.

As a natural centrist voter with Security red-lines I concur.

 

[Damocles]

Why did Labour lose in 2010 and 2015?

Because Miliband was a crap leftist candidate and Brown bought a bank. And because Cameron was the best Tory candidate in 30 years. We're lucky he left

 

[Chippy_boy]

You have no understanding of what's going on. The Labour party has to stand for social justice, if it ends up just being a kinder version of Toryism it fails itself but more importantly the people it's supposed to represent.

The party is re-invigorated and more purposeful than it has been for a long time and this election has shown that more and more people get it.

I wish you'd stop straying into being insulting territory, or we'll both end up being banned again. So please cut out the "you do my head in"s and the "you have no understandings". Stick to your arguments; your personal attacks are unnecessary.

Now in terms of my reply, as I have said, you have a very personal perspective based upon your hard-left ideals and I can see you are pleased that the party is seemingly going to stay on the hard left. What is not at all clear however is whether Labour can EVER win an election on this basis and whether the parliamentary MPs will forever tolerate being in opposition if they believe this to be the case.

You have not commented upon my assertion that Labour would have been thrashed in this election had the Tories not been so utterly incompetent? And given 6 years of austerity and an incompetent campaign, you would expect in normal circumstances the Labour opposition to have won comfortably. But you did not win, and I think it would be wrong to regard a better than expected defeat as being some kind of vindication: you would have won, if your policies were not so extreme. This should be a cause for concern, not for celebration.

As to whether a unelectable and never to be in power hard-left Labour party best represents anybody, well I am not sure it does.

 

[BlueAnorak]

This.

I voted for Corbyn during both Labour elections and obviously last night. I didn't vote for him because he wears a nice suit, I voted for him because I thought he could win an election. He has not won an election.

You see this is the different between the far left and the centre left of the Party. The far left is full of people who like Pyrrhic victories. They like discussing philosophy such as nuclear disarmament and identity politics. Great, I like those conversations too.

However what I like more is a well funded NHS, building low cost houses and making food banks a thing of the past. And you can't do any of that unless you win an election and that means compromising your opinion on some things.

The far left of the Party feel it's important to talk about policy. Blairites feel it's important to enact policy and the talk is political masturbation if you'll never get elected to enact it.

I want Labour to win elections. I thought Corbyn could energise the youth vote which he did but the collapse of UKIP fucked him and much of the country rejected him. Now I'll have to survey the options but if he forms a more united shadow cabinet then we'll ride with him for a bit as he appears to be growing into the role. If he decides to step aside and anoint a centrist successor who he campaigns hard for then we'll win the next election.

But that's the game. This isn't a joke. There are people on this country, especially those on disabilities and benefits who are fucked. They don't need a far left Labour party up its own arse about its revolution, they need an elected Labour Party in power and making changes. They don't have time for us to fuck about again and we're letting them down.

Jim Smith who's surviving on £40 a week doesn't care about "the movement". He just wants to be able to live his life. We failed him last night and we can't do so again.

Post of the Thread.

 

[Gray]

Typical Tory response, may did shite because of her not so good manifesto, no show on face to face debates because she knew she wouldn't beat Mr corbyn on it , she was drinking tea on a sports field while he was out campaigning, she should do the decent thing and fuck off

Not Tory mate never have been. Just my opinion as why Corbyn did better than expected.

 

[Chippy_boy]

This.

I voted for Corbyn during both Labour elections and obviously last night. I didn't vote for him because he wears a nice suit, I voted for him because I thought he could win an election. He has not won an election.

You see this is the different between the far left and the centre left of the Party. The far left is full of people who like Pyrrhic victories. They like discussing philosophy such as nuclear disarmament and identity politics. Great, I like those conversations too.

However what I like more is a well funded NHS, building low cost houses and making food banks a thing of the past. And you can't do any of that unless you win an election and that means compromising your opinion on some things.

The far left of the Party feel it's important to talk about policy. Blairites feel it's important to enact policy and the talk is political masturbation if you'll never get elected to enact it.

I want Labour to win elections. I thought Corbyn could energise the youth vote which he did but the collapse of UKIP fucked him and much of the country rejected him. Now I'll have to survey the options but if he forms a more united shadow cabinet then we'll ride with him for a bit as he appears to be growing into the role. If he decides to step aside and anoint a centrist successor who he campaigns hard for then we'll win the next election.

But that's the game. This isn't a joke. There are people on this country, especially those on disabilities and benefits who are fucked. They don't need a far left Labour party up its own arse about its revolution, they need an elected Labour Party in power and making changes. They don't have time for us to fuck about again and we're letting them down.

Jim Smith who's surviving on £40 a week doesn't care about "the movement". He just wants to be able to live his life. We failed him last night and we can't do so again.

I know you and I have opposing views mate, but I have to say that's a top post.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Ok. Try this. Blair's vote share was 1% higher.

On fine margins landlsides are won

 

[Indaparkside]

Not Tory mate never have been. Just my opinion as why Corbyn did better than expected.

I think personally, even though he did better than anyone expected, the press crucified him in the build up,
the journalist's gave him no chance etc.He still hasn't got the credit he deserves

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

The other side did win. They are forming a government and have five more years.

That ramshackle bunch of misfits (I include every MP elected last night) ain't gonna rumble on for the next five years! The Tories cannot stick anyone who isn't a winner so May will have gone by the next Tory party conference and whoever gets elected in her place might soldier on for a few months and then chance their arm in another election that won't deliver a Corbyn government so we are back where we started - Nil Nil!

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I can't see Corbyn ever winning an overall majority. But the tories are in such disarray (and the brexit negotiations aren't going to make that any better) that I think a Labour led coalition must be the most likely outcome of the next election, which could be within 2 years.

A Corbyn government is not gonna carry those handful of LibDems if they try to borrow and tax the arses off their supporters. Clegg lost his seat last night because of his insistence on staying in the EU, but he also carried over a lot of baggage from his days as Deputy Dawg. LibDems are Tories who just like to 'be nice'!

 

[Chippy_boy]

I think personally, even though he did better than anyone expected, the press crucified him in the build up,
the journalist's gave him no chance etc.He still hasn't got the credit he deserves

I think if someone stands up and tells the public they are going to deliver a whole load of things that cannot be delivered, it is the duty of the press to expose it as they see fit. They didn't seek to crucify him because they don't like his beard; it's because they think his policies are barmy. Should they say nothing in those circumstances? I cannot see a problem with saying it how you see it. And before anyone suggests they are in the Tories' pockets, they supported Blair well enough.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I wouldn't bet on that. Labour were where at the beginning of this election? 27% and now they're nudging 41%.....Things can only get better....

But we cannot make the assumption that Labour is increasing its vote because all of a sudden the electorate want a government with a fair whiff of Leftism attached to it. It is pretty difficult to unravel the Remainers and who they voted for, and the Leavers and who they voted for. The MP for Barrow who lambasted the idea of Corbyn going into the election as Labour leader said this dinnertime that if anybody tried to tell you the how and why of last night they were 'winging' it!

 

[Gelsons Dad]

This.

I voted for Corbyn during both Labour elections and obviously last night. I didn't vote for him because he wears a nice suit, I voted for him because I thought he could win an election. He has not won an election.

You see this is the different between the far left and the centre left of the Party. The far left is full of people who like Pyrrhic victories. They like discussing philosophy such as nuclear disarmament and identity politics. Great, I like those conversations too.

However what I like more is a well funded NHS, building low cost houses and making food banks a thing of the past. And you can't do any of that unless you win an election and that means compromising your opinion on some things.

The far left of the Party feel it's important to talk about policy. Blairites feel it's important to enact policy and the talk is political masturbation if you'll never get elected to enact it.

I want Labour to win elections. I thought Corbyn could energise the youth vote which he did but the collapse of UKIP fucked him and much of the country rejected him. Now I'll have to survey the options but if he forms a more united shadow cabinet then we'll ride with him for a bit as he appears to be growing into the role. If he decides to step aside and anoint a centrist successor who he campaigns hard for then we'll win the next election.

But that's the game. This isn't a joke. There are people on this country, especially those on disabilities and benefits who are fucked. They don't need a far left Labour party up its own arse about its revolution, they need an elected Labour Party in power and making changes. They don't have time for us to fuck about again and we're letting them down.

Jim Smith who's surviving on £40 a week doesn't care about "the movement". He just wants to be able to live his life. We failed him last night and we can't do so again.

Welcome back Damo. I thought we'd lost you for a day or two back there.
This is a great post.

 

[Blue Llama]

"Because Miliband was a crap leftist candidate and Brown bought a bank. And because Cameron was the best Tory candidate in 30 years. We're lucky he left"

I presume you forgot to include Ed Balls rather than omitting him?