Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[The perfect fumble]

Both leaders & most of their mates or fellow inmates are unfit to govern.

People who are taken in by these kind of shithouses are idiots & when it all runs its course, what you end up with, is something even worse.

The whole lot of them make me vomit.

I want you to overcome your reticence and tell me what you really think.

 

[worsleyweb]

In 2010 - Labour were 48 seats behind - Jeremey Corbyn writing for the disgraceful rag the Morning Star wrote - this is a disaster for new labour.

In 2017 - Labour were 56 seats behind - Jeremy Corbyn said - i think it is pretty clear who won the election.

And this was with his unaffordable bribery!

 

[Neville Kneville]

I want you to overcome your reticence and tell me what you really think.

I'm a bit busy with the more important stuff on the transfer forum ;)

 

[Bigga]

No getting into an immigration debate with someone as left wing as you on a Friday afternoon when i am about to have a well deserved pint in 17 minutes - enjoy your weekend. i wont understand you anyway. Why cant he just say in the order of 20-40,000? He wont because you know and i know it would be an open door policy under him as that is his belief.

You just wont admit it as you are entrenched.

Fair enough, no point.

Still, it's better than promising a number and being so far off the mark, it's ridiculous! He's giving himself wiggle room, so they can properly assess the numbers!

When you make promises you can't keep, you look a right cnut!

 

[The perfect fumble]

In 2010 - Labour were 48 seats behind - Jeremey Corbyn writing for the disgraceful rag the Morning Star wrote - this is a disaster for new labour.

In 2017 - Labour were 56 seats behind - Jeremy Corbyn said - i think it is pretty clear who won the election.

And this was with his unaffordable bribery!

What was Labour's majority going in to the 2010 election?

 

[cibaman]

The actual analysis of the election shows that the defining change was the enormous swing to Labour in the 30-50 age group, even more than the young vote.

Parents of students, or soon to be students. The people who would actually benefit from free tuition fees?

 

[cibaman]

An interesting scenario would be if the DUP drop the Tories in it or by some other reason the Tory Govt cannot get their legislation through the Commons and Corbyn is asked to from a minority Govt.

We could then have Corbyn being kept in power by Tory MP's who are too afraid of the opnion polls to force an election.

It would make sense for the tories to let Corbyn have two years in office. Labour would never be elected again.

 

[Chippy_boy]

In 2010 - Labour were 48 seats behind - Jeremey Corbyn writing for the disgraceful rag the Morning Star wrote - this is a disaster for new labour.

In 2017 - Labour were 56 seats behind - Jeremy Corbyn said - i think it is pretty clear who won the election.

And this was with his unaffordable bribery!

Priceless! Great post.

 

[Chippy_boy]

What was Labour's majority going in to the 2010 election?

You just can't handle it can you. Please post some more, it's comedy gold :-)

 

[Chippy_boy]

It would make sense for the tories to let Corbyn have two years in office. Labour would never be elected again.

I've thought the same myself. It would almost be worth it. Sadly the damage incurred would take 10 years to fix.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You just can't handle it can you. Please post some more, it's comedy gold :-)

I'll post some more if you promise to post less.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I'll post some more if you promise to post less.

What more encouragement could I possibly need for me to hang around.

 

[Damocles]

So many in here seem to believe that Labour under Corbyn is simply unelectable (which is code for they won't vote for him) therefore they believe Corbyn is allowing the Tories to do terrible things by dint of giving them a free run.

I've voted for Corbyn twice for leader and voted Lab twice for my MP in 2 years.

Corbyn is unelectable because he doesn't appeal to Middle England. Even in a referendum where Middle England voted Labour in order to get a sensible Brexit deal he still couldn't appeal to Middle England to turn Blue to Red.

This is the problem with you, Pole, Bigga and a few others. Everybody is an enemy. Tories are an enemy, Blairites are the enemy, Lib Dems are the enemy. Literally everybody who doesn't fit your exceedingly narrow political opinion is an enemy and a traitor and evil and doesn't give a shit about anyone. You guys are two steps away from strapping bombs to yourself so radicalized and full of hatred for other opinions you have become.

Politics IS compromise. That's how it works, that's how it runs, that how it operates when militants like you are back arguing on forums after elections and the business of running the country is in order. The Tories work with Labour hundreds of times a day in collaborative efforts either through Cross Party Commissions, enquiries, Minister shadowing, legislative Committees on each Bill, and a bunch of other stuff. They sit in the same "canteens" at the same tables talking to each other over lunch about the issues of the day.

Your view of how politics works is childish and not how legislative assemblies function to any degree at all. Your hyper partisanship is only fermented because you're a useful idiot to have when it comes to campaigning or raising funds. The rest of the time you're ignored not because the Government are some snobs who have forgotten their roots but because your opinions cannot be compromised, which makes you both unneeded because of your predictableness, and undesired because you're a roadblock to sensible compromise.

It's like you've never actually sat in meetings with people who don't agree with you. For all of the talk of humanity, many of your far left persuasion seen to lack a basic grasp of it.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

Why is wanting a cap on immigration LOL - most of the country want it?

Most of the EU want it.

 

[pirate]

I've told you twice at least!

you really havent

i have just read all your posts again
you have talked about transitioning to higher paid jobs where possible a number of times, but you havent addressed what happens to the 2.5 million who do low paid jobs that will continue to be low paid jobs

 

[Cheesy]

I've voted for Corbyn twice for leader and voted Lab twice for my MP in 2 years.

Corbyn is unelectable because he doesn't appeal to Middle England. Even in a referendum where Middle England voted Labour in order to get a sensible Brexit deal he still couldn't appeal to Middle England to turn Blue to Red.

This is the problem with you, Pole, Bigga and a few others. Everybody is an enemy. Tories are an enemy, Blairites are the enemy, Lib Dems are the enemy. Literally everybody who doesn't fit your exceedingly narrow political opinion is an enemy and a traitor and evil and doesn't give a shit about anyone. You guys are two steps away from strapping bombs to yourself so radicalized and full of hatred for other opinions you have become.

Politics IS compromise. That's how it works, that's how it runs, that how it operates when militants like you are back arguing on forums after elections and the business of running the country is in order. The Tories work with Labour hundreds of times a day in collaborative efforts either through Cross Party Commissions, enquiries, Minister shadowing, legislative Committees on each Bill, and a bunch of other stuff. They sit in the same "canteens" at the same tables talking to each other over lunch about the issues of the day.

Your view of how politics works is childish and not how legislative assemblies function to any degree at all. Your hyper partisanship is only fermented because you're a useful idiot to have when it comes to campaigning or raising funds. The rest of the time you're ignored not because the Government are some snobs who have forgotten their roots but because your opinions cannot be compromised, which makes you both unneeded because of your predictableness, and undesired because you're a roadblock to sensible compromise.

It's like you've never actually sat in meetings with people who don't agree with you. For all of the talk of humanity, many of your far left persuasion seen to lack a basic grasp of it.

Fucking great post mate.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I've voted for Corbyn twice for leader and voted Lab twice for my MP in 2 years.

Corbyn is unelectable because he doesn't appeal to Middle England. Even in a referendum where Middle England voted Labour in order to get a sensible Brexit deal he still couldn't appeal to Middle England to turn Blue to Red.

This is the problem with you, Pole, Bigga and a few others. Everybody is an enemy. Tories are an enemy, Blairites are the enemy, Lib Dems are the enemy. Literally everybody who doesn't fit your exceedingly narrow political opinion is an enemy and a traitor and evil and doesn't give a shit about anyone. You guys are two steps away from strapping bombs to yourself so radicalized and full of hatred for other opinions you have become.

Politics IS compromise. That's how it works, that's how it runs, that how it operates when militants like you are back arguing on forums after elections and the business of running the country is in order. The Tories work with Labour hundreds of times a day in collaborative efforts either through Cross Party Commissions, enquiries, Minister shadowing, legislative Committees on each Bill, and a bunch of other stuff. They sit in the same "canteens" at the same tables talking to each other over lunch about the issues of the day.

Your view of how politics works is childish and not how legislative assemblies function to any degree at all. Your hyper partisanship is only fermented because you're a useful idiot to have when it comes to campaigning or raising funds. The rest of the time you're ignored not because the Government are some snobs who have forgotten their roots but because your opinions cannot be compromised, which makes you both unneeded because of your predictableness, and undesired because you're a roadblock to sensible compromise.

It's like you've never actually sat in meetings with people who don't agree with you. For all of the talk of humanity, many of your far left persuasion seen to lack a basic grasp of it.

I replied to you with this a few days back.....

John Smith died in May 1994, had he lived I and millions like me wouldn't have to have these vacuous conversations with people like you, who clearly do not support labour principles of social justice for all. In the aftermath of Smith's death a group around Blair and Brown convinced the party that the problem they had was the party itself, so they set about gutting it and turned it into a softer version of the Tories, they cobbled together this confection by triangulating as many policies from Labours political opponents as possible and served it up in a popular wrapping and sailed home to a landslide against the backdrop of a tremendously unpopular government.

What we got with Blair was soft toryism with the odd bit of social tinkering by Brown with the whole confection kept afloat by a strong economy and PPI, yet here we are seven years after Brown collapsed with very little of the Blair/Brown social tinkering intact. We're out of the EU, stagnant living standards, a more unequal society, millions in insecure jobs, zero hours contracts, young people in debt, home ownership an impossible dream and all you can do is fantasize about a return to Blairism and accuse me of pissing on the dreams of millions, somehow relishing my ideological purity and loving every minute of our futile opposition.

Yes, I get it, you repeat it over and over again, you want to vote for something vaguely progressive and you're pissed off Labour won't serve it up for you, you keep banging on about how if only we could find Blair Mark 2 then we could take the country by storm, but where is your evidence for that? 1997?

I suggest you join the Lib Dems, the Labour party is in the process of rediscovering why it exists and re-connecting to its constituency, constructing policies with real teeth that tackle the injustices in our society. this election is a step in the right direction, it would have been great to win but from so far back it was almost impossible, but we'll get there sooner than you think. But noises off from junior Mandelsons like you are just plain annoying, you've had your day, that candy floss had no substance. Cameron once saw himself as the heir to Blair, maybe you can find a Blair Mark 2 with them.

You refused to answer.

I posted not long after...

The Labour party is supposed to be a broad church, why is that everything is tickety-boo when it's led by the right, but not by the left?

And subsequently added...

I understand there are floating voters, what you cannot comprehend and this is the crux of your problem of comprehension, is that it is not an absolute that floating voters float to the right.

You see narrow economic self interest, divide and rule, as irreversible laws of politics. That empathy and social justice is for the lunatic fringes and the naïve young.

Well you're going to be proved wrong, because divide and rule has got us here and here is not a happy place, it is a hopeless place and the young in particular feel it every day.

The right might have the power now, but they don't have the answers for the future.

There's a sea change taking place in politics and it's sad you can't see it.

I think that answers the points you raised, mull it over, ignore it, it's entirely up to you.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I've told you twice at least!

you really havent

i have just read all your posts again
you have talked about transitioning to higher paid jobs where possible a number of times, but you havent addressed what happens to the 2.5 million who do low paid jobs that will continue to be low paid jobs

My god you're hard work ;-)

One:

2. Pay people less and compensate them with government benefits, i.e. supplement their income. Essentially the current scenario.
...
There will always be a need for some unskilled work for those who cannot transition, and for those people and for those I think the least worst option is No. 2 above.

Two:

To recap, my position is this:

Having ruled out 1,2 and 3 as being unworkable, the least worse option is to help the poorest with in work benefits. I can see no better alternative, but if you have one, I am all ears.

I've replied to you directly, answering your specific question!

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yes, I get it, you repeat it over and over again, you want to vote for something vaguely progressive and you're pissed off Labour won't serve it up for you, you keep banging on about how if only we could find Blair Mark 2 then we could take the country by storm, but where is your evidence for that? 1997?

The Tories were there for the taking. You fluffed it.

 

[pirate]

My god you're hard work ;-)

One:

Two:


I've replied to you directly, answering your specific question!

sorry misunderstood
how are you going to distinguish between those low paid jobs that cant be transitioned into high paid jobs and low paid jobs that just exploit the workers,like mike ashley?
or is subsidising the likes of mike ashley a price that is worth paying?
if it is a price worth paying how do you make sure that employers like mike ashley dont proliferate leading to high unsustainable government subsidy?