Predator drones

Prestwich_Blue said:
Or in WWII we bombed targets of strategic and tactical importance in Germany and occupied Europe. Civilians died as a result of these raids so, in your little morally certain world, should we not ave done that?

On this point we did have a policy of bombing places of strategic and tactical importance however the reality was that the technology of the day was about as accurate as threading a needle with a hand grenade. On average only 2/3rds of all bombers got withing 5 miles of their target and we hit at around a 1 in 10 ratio. We started to bomb in the day and were cut to pieces so we decide to bomb at night. As one US Airforce general put it (I am remembering the quote here) "We struggled to hit anything in the day so at night we were basically just dropping bombs on anything and everything"
 
Josh Blue said:
You disgust me calling the children, mothers and fathers that have been killed as collateral damage. They a real people, just as important as use English people. Imagine if that was happening in this country, would we call in collateral damage.

Careful, I'm monitored on here due to the fact I promote peace and love over the death of innocents.
 
TheMightyQuinn said:
west didsblue said:
TheMightyQuinn said:
You think it's legitimate to advocate the death of innocent people in the hope that somehow some greater good can be achieved?

If you read my post properly you would have seen that I said it is legitimate to have a discussion about whether 20% collateral damage was acceptable. I didn't actually say it was acceptable and I certainly didn't advocate the death of innocent people.

I'd personally see a discussion about whether killing children is ever legitimate as in poor taste.

20% isn't OK. 1% isn't OK. We're none of us God.
Perhaps we should have surrendered to Germany in 1939 in case we accidentally killed a German civilian.
 
TheMightyQuinn said:
Josh Blue said:
Prestwich_Blue said:
Bravo Damocles. A wonderfully eloquent argument. What a shame it's utter bollox as usual. The judges would cringe at that sort of thing in a middle school debating competition.

Firstly, I never for one moment claimed that there was a price worth paying. I simply looked beyond the headline, read the source document and pointed out that the headline was hysterical.

Asking me, like Abraham, to murder my own child in the pursuit of world peace is completely nonsensical and I've no intention of justifying it with an answer. But I'll ask you a slightly less nonsensical question. Suppose we didn't take on terrorists and an unarmed drone watched a number of known intelligence targets have a meeting in a crowded area that later you found led to a massive attack on a UK target that led to hundreds or thousands of innocent deaths, including members of your family or friends. Would the fact that we didn't act, thereby avoiding the risk of killing innocent people, make you feel better?

It must be lovely to live in the comfy little world of moral certainties that you and Josh Blue appear to live in. Sadly the real world isn't like that and there are numerous shades of grey.

I also work in IT and work on large scale system implementations. When we test those they produce defects but we have to take a view about whether we can implement with hose defects because, if we waited until we'd eliminated every single one, we'd never implement the system. Or to put the question in human terms, in 2011 nearly 2,000 people were killed in road accidents. Some of those will have been the primary cause of their own deaths but the majority were presumably innocent. Should we therefore stop people driving because there is a very real risk that innocent people will die?

Or in WWII we bombed targets of strategic and tactical importance in Germany and occupied Europe. Civilians died as a result of these raids so, in your little morally certain world, should we not ave done that?

haha don't talk to me about the real world! The REAL WORLD?

OK lads, bottom line, real world, we need this asap, kill the baddies and save the goodies.

It's laughable.

Hey, that's not a mutilated baby, it's simply the means to an end. Bottom line. Real world. Asap.
Bottom line is that as long as the "collateral" is brown who gives a fuck.
 
Hahahahahaha "Collateral damage". PMSL. I hope that India never sides with the US/EU in any major war. I would like to see us cause some "collateral damage" of our own, you know, since its just "collateral damage"
 
Ragnarok said:
Hahahahahaha "Collateral damage". PMSL. I hope that India never sides with the US/EU in any major war. I would like to see us cause some "collateral damage" of our own, you know, since its just "collateral damage"

There is some disgusting threads being said in this thread and you've just sunk down to their level.
 
supa-dapa-dan said:
Hey, that's not a mutilated baby, it's simply the means to an end. Bottom line. Real world. Asap.
Bottom line is that as long as the "collateral" is brown who gives a fuck.[/quote]

When we kill them it's collateral damage. When they kill us it's terrorism.

Bottom line baby.
 
Josh Blue said:
Ragnarok said:
Hahahahahaha "Collateral damage". PMSL. I hope that India never sides with the US/EU in any major war. I would like to see us cause some "collateral damage" of our own, you know, since its just "collateral damage"

There is some disgusting threads being said in this thread and you've just sunk down to their level.

I am mocking their indifference to civilian lives as long they are not from the US/EU and i meant India causing this so called "collateral damage" on the US/EU side.
 
west didsblue said:
TheMightyQuinn said:
west didsblue said:
If you read my post properly you would have seen that I said it is legitimate to have a discussion about whether 20% collateral damage was acceptable. I didn't actually say it was acceptable and I certainly didn't advocate the death of innocent people.

I'd personally see a discussion about whether killing children is ever legitimate as in poor taste.

20% isn't OK. 1% isn't OK. We're none of us God.
Perhaps we should have surrendered to Germany in 1939 in case we accidentally killed a German civilian.

Good comeback, that, mention the war.
 
Ragnarok said:
Josh Blue said:
Ragnarok said:
Hahahahahaha "Collateral damage". PMSL. I hope that India never sides with the US/EU in any major war. I would like to see us cause some "collateral damage" of our own, you know, since its just "collateral damage"

There is some disgusting threads being said in this thread and you've just sunk down to their level.

I am mocking their indifference to civilian lives as long they are not from the US/EU

I understand your point, it's a valid one but you've said it in poor taste.
 
Josh Blue said:
Ragnarok said:
Josh Blue said:
There is some disgusting threads being said in this thread and you've just sunk down to their level.

I am mocking their indifference to civilian lives as long they are not from the US/EU

I understand your point, it's a valid one but you've said it in poor taste.

It might be in poor taste, but it shouldnt be a problem for them as they clearly feel that such things happen in war, so it appears to be acceptable to them?
 
TheMightyQuinn said:
west didsblue said:
TheMightyQuinn said:
You think it's legitimate to advocate the death of innocent people in the hope that somehow some greater good can be achieved?

If you read my post properly you would have seen that I said it is legitimate to have a discussion about whether 20% collateral damage was acceptable. I didn't actually say it was acceptable and I certainly didn't advocate the death of innocent people.

I'd personally see a discussion about whether killing children is ever legitimate as in poor taste.

20% isn't OK. 1% isn't OK. We're none of us God.
Let's join Damocles world of GCSE level moral dilemmas. A group of known terrorists has been infiltrated by an intelligence agent. He tells you that they're planning an attack on the MEN Arena during a Disney On Ice show that will lead to the deaths of children. The terrorists know that drones are looking for them so they meet in a school believing they'll be safe. You have one chance to take them all out but if you don't children will probably die. If you do, children will probably die. What do you do?
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
TheMightyQuinn said:
west didsblue said:
If you read my post properly you would have seen that I said it is legitimate to have a discussion about whether 20% collateral damage was acceptable. I didn't actually say it was acceptable and I certainly didn't advocate the death of innocent people.

I'd personally see a discussion about whether killing children is ever legitimate as in poor taste.

20% isn't OK. 1% isn't OK. We're none of us God.
Let's join Damocles world of GCSE level moral dilemmas. A group of known terrorists has been infiltrated by an intelligence agent. He tells you that they're planning an attack on the MEN Arena during a Disney On Ice show that will lead to the deaths of children. The terrorists know that drones are looking for them so they meet in a school believing they'll be safe. You have one chance to take them all out but if you don't children will probably die. If you do, children will probably die. What do you do?

That is the stupidest shit i've ever read outside the transfer forum.
 
Josh Blue said:
Prestwich_Blue said:
TheMightyQuinn said:
I'd personally see a discussion about whether killing children is ever legitimate as in poor taste.

20% isn't OK. 1% isn't OK. We're none of us God.
Let's join Damocles world of GCSE level moral dilemmas. A group of known terrorists has been infiltrated by an intelligence agent. He tells you that they're planning an attack on the MEN Arena during a Disney On Ice show that will lead to the deaths of children. The terrorists know that drones are looking for them so they meet in a school believing they'll be safe. You have one chance to take them all out but if you don't children will probably die. If you do, children will probably die. What do you do?

That is the stupidest shit i've ever read outside the transfer forum.

Embarrassing.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Let's join Damocles world of GCSE level moral dilemmas. A group of known terrorists has been infiltrated by an intelligence agent. He tells you that they're planning an attack on the MEN Arena during a Disney On Ice show that will lead to the deaths of children. The terrorists know that drones are looking for them so they meet in a school believing they'll be safe. You have one chance to take them all out but if you don't children will probably die. If you do, children will probably die. What do you do?

You do whatever your culture has told you is right when faced with a logically insane question like that.

Do you kill 500,000 at the start of WWI if it meant it ended on day 1?

Do you drop the nuke at the start of WWII if it stopped it on day 1?

The answers are a logical yes it's just that it's insane to get to the point where you have to answer these questions.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
TheMightyQuinn said:
west didsblue said:
If you read my post properly you would have seen that I said it is legitimate to have a discussion about whether 20% collateral damage was acceptable. I didn't actually say it was acceptable and I certainly didn't advocate the death of innocent people.

I'd personally see a discussion about whether killing children is ever legitimate as in poor taste.

20% isn't OK. 1% isn't OK. We're none of us God.
Let's join Damocles world of GCSE level moral dilemmas. A group of known terrorists has been infiltrated by an intelligence agent. He tells you that they're planning an attack on the MEN Arena during a Disney On Ice show that will lead to the deaths of children. The terrorists know that drones are looking for them so they meet in a school believing they'll be safe. You have one chance to take them all out but f you do children will die. If you do, children will probably die. What do you do?

I'm dubious as to the 'intelligence' on these 'known terrorists', it sounds like bullshit.

I'm not choosing to kill any children, sorry.

I may be an idealist but rather that than be able to justify the killing of human beings in order to achieve a greater good. It's terrorism in my book.
 
TheMightyQuinn said:
west didsblue said:
TheMightyQuinn said:
I'd personally see a discussion about whether killing children is ever legitimate as in poor taste.

20% isn't OK. 1% isn't OK. We're none of us God.
Perhaps we should have surrendered to Germany in 1939 in case we accidentally killed a German civilian.

Good comeback, that, mention the war.
Well I think it makes a valid point.
 
mindmyp's_n_q's said:
Prestwich_Blue said:
Let's join Damocles world of GCSE level moral dilemmas. A group of known terrorists has been infiltrated by an intelligence agent. He tells you that they're planning an attack on the MEN Arena during a Disney On Ice show that will lead to the deaths of children. The terrorists know that drones are looking for them so they meet in a school believing they'll be safe. You have one chance to take them all out but if you don't children will probably die. If you do, children will probably die. What do you do?

You do whatever your culture has told you is right when faced with a logically insane question like that.

Exactly and I never chose a side so I can't really pick because I don't see Muslims as bad children or Jews as bad children, I just see them as kids but then I am known for being a hippy so I might just be mental.
 
The fact that Prestwich_Blue actually bothered to think up this ridiculous scenario which in no way relates to the use of predator drones is insane, scary and pathetic all at the same time.

It is cowardice act to try and legitimise the killing of any innocent peoples.
 

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