Predator drones

[AntiUnited]

The fact that Prestwich_Blue actually bothered to think up this ridiculous scenario which in no way relates to the use of predator drones is insane, scary and pathetic all at the same time.

It is cowardice act to try and legitimise the killing of any innocent peoples.

Its ok Israel do this everyday.

This

 

[stonerblue]

Didn't Harris and Churchill begin blanket bombing German cities after a stray German bomb landed on London, killing civilians?

 

[BulgarianPride]

I just can't understand how you can justify the murder of innocent people.

And i can't believe some of the shit i am reading on here...

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

I just can't understand how you can justify the murder of innocent people.

And i can't believe some of the shit i am reading on here...

You and me both.
I have seldom seen such flimsy, spurious logic deployed to defend indiscriminate killing.
Thankfully it's only the usual predictable apologists who think that way.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Or in WWII we bombed targets of strategic and tactical importance in Germany and occupied Europe. Civilians died as a result of these raids so, in your little morally certain world, should we not ave done that?

On this point we did have a policy of bombing places of strategic and tactical importance however the reality was that the technology of the day was about as accurate as threading a needle with a hand grenade. On average only 2/3rds of all bombers got withing 5 miles of their target and we hit at around a 1 in 10 ratio. We started to bomb in the day and were cut to pieces so we decide to bomb at night. As one US Airforce general put it (I am remembering the quote here) "We struggled to hit anything in the day so at night we were basically just dropping bombs on anything and everything"

the british used area bombing which was deliberately aimed at the german civilian population with sole purpose of killing enough people so the germans could no longer wage war

this is why Bomber Harris is such a controversial figure

Quite correct. However, prior to Arthur Harris becoming chief of bomber command, the Germans had bombed, and fire-bombed, London, Manchester, Liverpool, Hull, Southampton, Portsmouth,Coventry, Birmingham, to name just some, killing hundreds of thousands. The reason being we were at war with them, so were legitimate targets.
The German population showed no desire to remove the Nazis and actively and enthusiastically supported these tactics, so consequently, Harris, quite rightly, reciprocated in order to cow the population, reduce war capacity and attempt to bring hostilities to an end.
War is horrible and unrelenting, but once engaged it has to be waged with ruthless intent.

 

[Damocles]

I'd personally see a discussion about whether killing children is ever legitimate as in poor taste.

20% isn't OK. 1% isn't OK. We're none of us God.

Let's join Damocles world of GCSE level moral dilemmas. A group of known terrorists has been infiltrated by an intelligence agent. He tells you that they're planning an attack on the MEN Arena during a Disney On Ice show that will lead to the deaths of children. The terrorists know that drones are looking for them so they meet in a school believing they'll be safe. You have one chance to take them all out but if you don't children will probably die. If you do, children will probably die. What do you do?

That is the stupidest shit i've ever read outside the transfer forum.

And he slagged me off for personalising deaths then comes out with this utter bag of wank.

Not for the first time, PB's almost religious fervor for trivalising the murder of people (apart from Israelites and victims of Islamic terrorism obviously) is disgusting. More than that, he completely misses that killing innocent people IS THE EXACT REASON why terrorists are immoral and would instead like people to sink to the same level to combat them.

 

[Ducado]

Some of you lot confuse me you seem to be saying that when some nutter blows himself up on a crowded tube station it's really OK we get what we deserve and as PB pointed out its perfectly acceptable for Palestinians to fire rockets at civilians, but it's only Jews getting hurt and they deserve it well at least we know where we stand

 

[Damocles]

The fact that Prestwich_Blue actually bothered to think up this ridiculous scenario which in no way relates to the use of predator drones is insane, scary and pathetic all at the same time.

It is cowardice act to try and legitimise the killing of any innocent peoples.

It's no more ridiculous than Damocles' scenario that i used it to answer.

Mine was an attempt to personalise death to see if you'd willing sacrifice your own as quickly as you are sacrificing others. The fact that you completely missed this and thought it was a real hypothetical point then called it stupid is funny.

Ladies and gentlemen, Dunning Kruger live and in action<br /><br />-- Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:30 am --<br /><br />

Some of you lot confuse me you seem to be saying that when some nutter blows himself up on a crowded tube station it's really OK we get what we deserve and as PB pointed out its perfectly acceptable for Palestinians to fire rockets at civilians, but it's only Jews getting hurt and they deserve it well at least we know where we stand

That's a helpful and informative post that added a lot to this discussion ducado, well done.

 

[blueinsa]

Who would be in favour of flying a drone over the Emirates this afternoon and targeting a select group of individuals?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I just can't understand how you can justify the murder of innocent people.

And i can't believe some of the shit i am reading on here...

You and me both.
I have seldom seen such flimsy, spurious logic deployed to defend indiscriminate killing.
Thankfully it's only the usual predictable apologists who think that way.

And here's Bluemoon's very own drone, right on station.

The original post claimed that 50 civilians were being killed for every terrorist. That wasn't the case and it was actually 1 per 5 terrorists. Is that still too many? Yes it is but the sad reality is that we're fighting a war not against tanks and troops on a battlefield but people who live and hide among civilians. People who have no problem killing hundreds of innocent civilians. They don't ask you before detonating their bombs and splattering you all over a tube carriage how you feel about certain things.

Despite all the opporbrium heaped on George Bush, his policy was only to undertake targeted killings of known individuals. That's at least less repugnant than the Obama doctrine which is that if people fit the pattern of a terrorist then they'll be hit. But even that Bush policy can (and probably has) lead to the deaths of innocent people. There are always terrible moral dilemmas in war and this is sadly another.

And there's another thing. The fear of living under the threat drone attacks was well described in that study by Stanford & NYU. Yet not many if any of the people on here attacking the drone policy expressed any sympathy whatsoever for the Israeli children who live in constant dread of rocket attacks and have suffered pyschological problems because of it. Those childrens' lives don't count to them.