Protest v Wolves

[jrb]

Thanks mate

Yes you did invite me but really I’d prefer have season card holders turning up on a regular basis than value golds. I just think flexi-golds are OK compared with season card holders turning up infrequently (though everyone has their own committments / priorities). I wouldn’t be the ideal advocate for flexi-golds. I just don’t like the pressure people have been put under on here to say they are crap (not by you). Sorry for not getting back to you. I’ve been hectic with work and sorting Cup Final tickets. Maybe I can come on another time on another topic.

Regarding your survey results, I don’t see f-gs as the answer to having crowds of Blues in singing sections regularly belting out our chants. I think they are part of the solution to getting more families in the ground because eg there’s no obligation to go on midweek / school nights and City do go to the trouble of matching parents with adjacent kids tickets. City could do more of that with full season cards too.

I will give City Matters credit for negotiating the improvements to f-gs and the protest groups,
Including good work by 1894 on bringing pressure on the club. I’ve participated in both main protests. I did think the tweet from the OSC to 1894 the other day about the negotiations / protests was a bit stage managed to get ticket deals over the line.

Kevin Parker meets City Directors fairly often so if he’s mentioned the set up fees are crap and need to go, more power to his elbow. I really wouldn’t make a massive deal out of this. KP has helped to achieve improvements for fans but there is a long way to go, particularly on match day ticket prices. So have the range of fans groups.

I see there are posters queuing up to allege KP was Bin Laden’s right hand man. I’m hungover but I’m having a good laugh at some of the posts. People say KP is an operator and I hardly know him. I suggest “operators” are need at times like these.

People see me as diehard OSC because when the attempted bullying of members was rife on here a number of years ago I stuck to my guns. I don’t think being in the OSC is that great btw. Just that it’s better than not being a member and I know KP is available 7 days a week to help fans.

I know I wind a few people up so have to roll with the punches. It’s seeing other people pressurised on here that I object to. I always object to attempted pioe ons regardless of whether I agree with the issues or not. For example, I wrote to several prominent Blues a few months back about not alienating genuine Blues of colour through emotional language. I got a very positive response.

I agree that affordable prices are the key and I hope this weeks progress is built upon. Credit to you guys for lifting the atmosphere last night.

Nobody is saying Flexi-Golds are crap. They serve a purpose. What people are annoyed about, and complaining about, is the £150 and £75 scam charge that has been added on to the Flexi-Gold season ticket. Plain and simple, the directors are openly and brazenly exploiting City fans. They should be utterly ashamed of themselves, but they won't be. To them it's another way to drive match day revenue.

 

[mexico1970]

Happens with things like allotments and housing where demand massively outstrips supply.

ALLOTMENTS :)

 

[wearethesouthstand]

Nobody is saying Flexi-Golds are crap. They serve a purpose. What people are annoyed about, and complaining about, is the £150 and £75 scam charge that has been added on to the Flexi-Gold season ticket. Plain and simple, the directors are openly and brazenly exploiting City fans. They should be utterly ashamed of themselves, but they won't be. To them it's another way to drive match day revenue.

Tim said on here when backing FG earlier this season he thought the club would scrap the charges. They haven’t they only scrap them if you hit 16 games. People who “want” the flexibility of going when they want won’t hit 16 anyway. Most took FG as they thought it was a form of season ticket and a way up the ladder. They realised after it wasn’t. Even now you have to jump through hoops to hit the criteria and after that you are in danger of losing the season ticket again the year after.

It’s Stockholm syndrome defending it as far as I’m concerned but all of us are Blues and we are all entitled to our opinions

 

[jrb]

Unlike you, I've sat in the room with Kevin many times in City Matters meetings and I can assure you he can be very vehement and quite scathing.

I wouldn't know, because there"s little or no feedback to the OSC members or to City fans.

Seeing as you know so much about Kevin, like you say, I'm sure he can be very vehement and quite scathing when he needs to be, do you know which OSC members voted against the first protest and why, because nobody else does?

As an OSC member I'd like to know who took that decision and why they took that decision without consulting the OSC membership. So far nobody has answered my question. Maybe I should contact Kevin via X. You never know, he might tell me. Or is that information NDA'd?

 

[blueparrot]

Nobody is saying Flexi-Golds are crap. They serve a purpose. What people are annoyed about, and complaining about, is the £150 and £75 scam charge that has been added on to the Flexi-Gold season ticket. Plain and simple, the directors are openly and brazenly exploiting City fans. They should be utterly ashamed of themselves, but they won't be. To them it's another way to drive match day revenue.

But the £150 'scam' has gone nobody will pay £150 anymore the maximum will be £75 and it sounds like the majority will pay nothing and progress to a normal SC. At least acknowledge that improvement.

 

[wearethesouthstand]

Unlike you, I've sat in the room with Kevin many times in City Matters meetings and I can assure you he can be very vehement and quite scathing. He's also usually the most constructive rep as well. That's not to say he and I have always seen eye-to-eye on everything but he usually has a good justification for the positions he takes.

Just on Kev he’s clearly been a skilled operator over a couple of decades I gave him credit publicly over the super league stance for example

Football greed cannot be left unchallenged. It’s possible some of our campaigning compromises the OSC and leaves Kev stuck between a rock and hard place but that’s not our problem so to speak we will continue to speak in the way we want to and it’s for other groups to find a way to do similar.

The OSC rank and file wouldn’t mind if Kev / the committee speaks out more. What his own members say is no need to defend the club the way he does some of the comments don’t always seem to take the fans side. Again, he has to protect the OSC’s relationship with the club.

I said to him what if the club reduced your allocation from 20% to 15% you’d want support from other groups then ?

The club will come for everyone eventually.

He does things on the quiet to help like sending out mailers from 1894 on the protest.

We don’t feel we have to run everything past him though same as he doesn’t need to run things past us. If what we are going to do compromises the OSC we don’t ask them to get involved. I think that’s actually being fair to the OSC. Same for Citymatters. If they are not all singing from same hymn sheet don’t make it harder for them. We’ll plough on regardless

As you know me and Kev speak regularly. If we disagree we keep it in house. I tell him to get Howard Arnie and others in the OSC to do more interviews. At times he needs a hand. That’s why he ends with up personal abuse as he is the face of the OSC whereas in 1894 when we get slagged off it’s the group that gets it not anything personal against individuals.

He’s also approaching a vintage age even though he doesn’t look it ! At that age I wouldn’t want all this hassle.

The OSC has done loads of good things, opening branches spreading the City name everywhere that’s what they are known for, bringing fans and players closer together.

For the record some of our main guys are in the following branches : Lymm , Blackley, Heroes of Waterloo, Cheadle, Hale and Alty, Castleton, Belgium, Warsaw, Crewe, Hattersley and Mottram, Poynton, Eccles - huge support too from branches like Tokyo Delhi and various US branches. There’s no them and us.

That being said they did criticise 1894 this week but we weren’t arsed because we knew the fans were on our side. It does mean though that we are able to go against them publicly in the future though as they’re the ones that have set that precedent.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Nobody is saying Flexi-Golds are crap. They serve a purpose. What people are annoyed about, and complaining about, is the £150 and £75 scam charge that has been added on to the Flexi-Gold season ticket. Plain and simple, the directors are openly and brazenly exploiting City fans. They should be utterly ashamed of themselves, but they won't be. To them it's another way to drive match day revenue.

I agree mate but the set up fees are being ended / slashed for regular attenders.

I was calling Danny Wilson when everyone else was kissing his arse but I was convinced by top posters like you, Sheila, Didsbury Dave, BluesWes, PB and others that he’s a top guy and I broadly accepted it. I reckon Soriano will go when Pep goes. I think KP would be a decent choice as the next CEO of City.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Not sure about pressure on people to say this or that on FG, the pressure on the club is coming fans themselves, 128 of 131 FG members that responded to the survey said they want the choice of FG or ST. Club is putting restrictions on that and dressing it up as a pathway. That’s as unfair as demonising season ticket holders. If they want full seats let ST holders transfer to more people for face value, less people use the exchange because tickets go on live football dot com and a non City fan is there - or a blue is charged £61 to £88 and fellow blues don’t want to justify the club’s prices.

Flexi gold is a way of filtering more tickets to 3rd party sites. It wrecks segregation in the ground. That has got worse since FG has got in. The club’s motives on FG wasn’t to stop empty seats, they have actually increased since FG came in, it’s to ensure another supply of returned tickets doesn’t go in the main pool and gets touted out to 3rd parties. Hence the continual adding of 3rd parties.

We are an atmosphere group so will challenge anything that affects the atmosphere.

Flexi Gold continuing in whatever form no matter how watered down is going to mean more and more security problems.

Fans see that.

Club are just stubborn and don’t want to go back on it. The way out is to offer all who might qualify for ST or FG that choice. That way FG can die “nicely” without the humiliation of having to kill it off.

Club puts money before fan security though and tells CM there’s no option we have to make it work. Some in CM fall for that.

Yes I accept given a choice the vast majority would take a season card over flexi-gold. Its the posters who’ve said flexi-golds are decent but they would prefer a season card have - bizarrely - taken a bit of stick on here.

 

[jrb]

But the £150 'scam' has gone nobody will pay £150 anymore the maxinmum will be £75 and it sounds like the majority will pay nothing and progress to a normal SC. At least acknowledge that improvement.

Why does there have to be a £75 charge? Why not a £0 charge. What are the fans actually paying a charge for? Do you know? Does anyone know?

You don't know if the majority will pay nothing. That's a guess.

No offence. Again, you are another fan who has been hooked in by what seems to be an improvement by the directors on what is currently a dreadful exploitation of City fans via the Flexi-Gold scam charge

I have a season ticket. I don't pay an additional charge. Why should other City fans pay an additional charge?

 

[blueparrot]

Yes I accept given a choice the vast majority would take a season card over flexi-gold. Its the posters who’ve said flexi-golds are decent but they would prefer a season card have - bizarrely - taken a bit of stick on here.

Out of interest does anyone know what split of FG are used as a substitute SC so maybe attending 14 plus games and how many are used as a way to get cheap guaranteed seat matchday tickets barely doing much more than the minimum 10 which is how I'd have used it if I was to get one.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Tim said on here when backing FG earlier this season he thought the club would scrap the charges. They haven’t they only scrap them if you hit 16 games. People who “want” the flexibility of going when they want won’t hit 16 anyway. Most took FG as they thought it was a form of season ticket and a way up the ladder. They realised after it wasn’t. Even now you have to jump through hoops to hit the criteria and after that you are in danger of losing the season ticket again the year after.

It’s Stockholm syndrome defending it as far as I’m concerned but all of us are Blues and we are all entitled to our opinions

True mate. I sensed when I saw the OSC send that out of character tweet to 1894 that there must be a deal in the offing and a key component would be slashing or removing the atrocious set up fees. I like the way City are now handling this going forward and it’s long overdue. Credit to the protestors and fans groups too. I suspected it was stage managed between the OSC and 1894, to help get a deal, but obviously not.

BTW I do have the surname of a Swedish City but I’m afraid it’s not Stockholm.

Joking aside, the main issue is match day ticket pricing but it’s hard to know if progress has been made until next season. A milestone would be transparent price categories and prices as PB has advocated.

 

[blueparrot]

Why does there have to be a £75 charge? Why not a £0 charge. What are the fans actually paying a charge for? Do you know? Does anyone know?

You don't know if the majority will pay nothing. That's a guess.

No offence. Again, you are another fan who has been hooked in by what seems to be an improvement by the directors on what is currently a dreadful exploitation of City fans via the Flexi-Gold scam charge

I have a season ticket. I don't pay an additional charge. Why should other City fans pay an additional charge?

Well those ending up paying £75 would be match day buyers paying it for access to maatchday tickets at cheaper S/C prices with a guarantee of the same seats for all the matches they want,which is great value for any match day ticket buyers that can make 10 games. Anyone using it as a S/C will pay no fee,and have a pathway to a full SC.
May not be perfect but it's vastly better than what it was this season.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Just on Kev he’s clearly been a skilled operator over a couple of decades I gave him credit publicly over the super league stance for example

Football greed cannot be left unchallenged. It’s possible some of our campaigning compromises the OSC and leaves Kev stuck between a rock and hard place but that’s not our problem so to speak we will continue to speak in the way we want to and it’s for other groups to find a way to do similar.

The OSC rank and file wouldn’t mind if Kev / the committee speaks out more. What his own members say is no need to defend the club the way he does some of the comments don’t always seem to take the fans side. Again, he has to protect the OSC’s relationship with the club.

I said to him what if the club reduced your allocation from 20% to 15% you’d want support from other groups then ?

The club will come for everyone eventually.

He does things on the quiet to help like sending out mailers from 1894 on the protest.

We don’t feel we have to run everything past him though same as he doesn’t need to run things past us. If what we are going to do compromises the OSC we don’t ask them to get involved. I think that’s actually being fair to the OSC. Same for Citymatters. If they are not all singing from same hymn sheet don’t make it harder for them. We’ll plough on regardless

As you know me and Kev speak regularly. If we disagree we keep it in house. I tell him to get Howard Arnie and others in the OSC to do more interviews. At times he needs a hand. That’s why he ends with up personal abuse as he is the face of the OSC whereas in 1894 when we get slagged off it’s the group that gets it not anything personal against individuals.

He’s also approaching a vintage age even though he doesn’t look it ! At that age I wouldn’t want all this hassle.

The OSC has done loads of good things, opening branches spreading the City name everywhere that’s what they are known for, bringing fans and players closer together.

They did criticise 1894 this week but we weren’t arsed because we knew the fans were on our side. It does mean though that we are able to go against them publicly in the future though as they’re the ones that have set that precedent.

Sorry to say this Dante, but I held my tongue about your patronising and insolent response to me a few days ago, after I replied to someone else without involving you. You've just been incredibly patronising and insolent to Kevin as well. It seems like you're getting a bit full of your own self-importance and enjoying the sound of your own voice a bit too much.

If you really want to create an alternative to the OSC then do what I said to you a few years ago and form a Supporters Trust. 1894 is by far the best placed group to do it yet you've done nothing. Put your money where your mouth is finally and step out from behind your keyboard.

 

[Corky]

Why does there have to be a £75 charge? Why not a £0 charge. What are the fans actually paying a charge for? Do you know? Does anyone know?

You don't know if the majority will pay nothing. That's a guess.

No offence. Again, you are another fan who has been hooked in by what seems to be an improvement by the directors on what is currently a dreadful exploitation of City fans via the Flexi-Gold scam charge

I have a season ticket. I don't pay an additional charge. Why should other City fans pay an additional charge?

It was far cheaper than the membership and match day prices so fans were more than happy last year to pay it.

Now they get it all back in they go enough it is hard to complain.

Any one who went from CMM to FG saved a lot of money, and now they save more next season.

Fans who are complaining about not being able to get "proper" season tickets are also complaining about having to turn up.

The recouping of the charge in effect by FG holders is a good compromise. Normal season tickets will come back as soon as demand looks like it has dropped for a sustained period, but the those desperate to go now won't want to go either.

 

[wearethesouthstand]

True mate. I sensed when I saw the OSC send that out of character tweet to 1894 that there must be a deal in the offing and a key component would be slashing or removing the atrocious set up fees. I like the way City are now handling this going forward and it’s long overdue. Credit to the protestors and fans groups too. I suspected it was stage managed between the OSC and 1894, to help get a deal, but obviously not.

BTW I do have the surname of a Swedish City but I’m afraid it’s not Stockholm.

Joking aside, the main issue is match day ticket pricing but it’s hard to know if progress has been made until next season. A milestone would be transparent price categories and prices as PB has advocated.

The Stockholm syndrome wasn’t directed specifically at you mate.

The tweet criticised the letter to pep.

The pep letter called out soriano.

We make no apologies for that.

De vries will take over from soriano when he goes.

Letter gets the media interested too, it carries the fans real grievances to a worldwide audience.

If others don’t like it - tough shit - we don’t really care. We have a mandate to do it.

 

[wearethesouthstand]

Sorry to say this Dante, but I held my tongue about your patronising and insolent response to me a few days ago, after I replied to someone else without involving you. You've just been incredibly patronising and insolent to Kevin as well. It seems like you're getting a bit full of your own self-importance and enjoying the sound of your own voice a bit too much.

If you really want to create an alternative to the OSC then do what I said to you a few years ago and form a Supporters Trust. 1894 is by far the best placed group to do it yet you've done nothing. Put your money where your mouth is finally and step out from behind your keyboard.

We’ve done nothing… watch this space. As usual you will be proved wrong.

As for the other stuff. Absolute bollocks.

There is no setting up alternatives to the OSC. We tried it within the OSC first time round, blue alliance the name for city centre branch. But we found it couldn’t work within the OSC structure you’d have the EC meetings once a month with a set agenda and possibly 6 or 7 home games in a month. It’s easier to operate independently.

The atmosphere is our focus and it wasn’t the main focus for the OSC. Also the behaviour of certain members of the blue alliance on coaches etc could have brought the OSC into disrepute.

All very defensive from your side. You can’t moan at people about a trust when you had the chance to do it yourself before.

And of course if a trust is set up you’d then portray that as “undermining Citymatters the elected fan advisory board”.

Maybe you could be the go between spokesman to smooth things over between two groups.

All the above Tongue in cheek. I am sorry for the uncle Albert comment that was unfair.

 

[stonerblue]

It's a fairly flexible season ticket, the only thing that is wrong is the £150 a season which I believe they are now rescinding if you attend enough matches.

Yes, it's a form of season ticket.

So it's a season ticket then.

 

[117 M34]

Why does there have to be a £75 charge? Why not a £0 charge. What are the fans actually paying a charge for? Do you know? Does anyone know?

You don't know if the majority will pay nothing. That's a guess.

No offence. Again, you are another fan who has been hooked in by what seems to be an improvement by the directors on what is currently a dreadful exploitation of City fans via the Flexi-Gold scam charge

I have a season ticket. I don't pay an additional charge. Why should other City fans pay an additional charge?

They are paying for flexibility.
If I book a holiday with TUI and think I might need to change the date so need more flexibility, they charge more.

 

[CoventryBlue]

Thankfully Kevin Parkers turn as a City Matters Rep will eventually end.

Unfortunately you can bet he will have a say in who is the next City Matters Rep for the OSC.

And the new OSC, City Matters Rep, certainly won't rock the boat with the club.

He has tenure. He's already into his second term

 

[stonerblue]

Not sure about pressure on people to say this or that on FG, the pressure on the club is coming fans themselves, 128 of 131 FG members that responded to the survey said they want the choice of FG or ST. Club is putting restrictions on that and dressing it up as a pathway. That’s as unfair as demonising season ticket holders. If they want full seats let ST holders transfer to more people for face value, less people use the exchange because tickets go on live football dot com and a non City fan is there - or a blue is charged £61 to £88 and fellow blues don’t want to justify the club’s prices.

Flexi gold is a way of filtering more tickets to 3rd party sites. It wrecks segregation in the ground. That has got worse since FG has got in. The club’s motives on FG wasn’t to stop empty seats, they have actually increased since FG came in, it’s to ensure another supply of returned tickets doesn’t go in the main pool and gets touted out to 3rd parties. Hence the continual adding of 3rd parties.

We are an atmosphere group so will challenge anything that affects the atmosphere.

Flexi Gold continuing in whatever form no matter how watered down is going to mean more and more security problems.

Fans see that.

Club are just stubborn and don’t want to go back on it. The way out is to offer all who might qualify for ST or FG that choice. That way FG can die “nicely” without the humiliation of having to kill it off.

Club puts money before fan security though and tells CM there’s no option we have to make it work. Some in CM fall for that.

How is letting st holders transfer to anbodee gonna be better for segregation/safetee/atmosphere?