Public sector pay since 2010

Ah, OK I see what you mean now.

Sure, but it's still a matter of having to fund things. We do have the highest public spending as a proportion of GDP we've had in half a century. Wanting that to go even higher is a political choice, but extra still has to come from somewhere. The last decade has really not been easy, as the horrendous deficit showed. Shove taxes up and you have the same issue with losing talent in the private sector. Everything is a trade off.
I agree,however,i think it's lunacy to piss off the backbone of this country especially in a time when so many are content to sponge their way through life.

Its a very difficult situation for sure.
 
I agree,however,i think it's lunacy to piss off the backbone of this country especially in a time when so many are content to sponge their way through life.

Its a very difficult situation for sure.

We're not arguing, and it's not aimed at you at all, but I'd genuinely like to see a proper debate on how we can address these issues without it being reduced to "spend more (of other peoples, not mine, obvs) money". Same with the NHS generally. It always descends to not wanting to be like the USA. No one wants it to be like the USA, but other European countries get far better results for their money than we do, so why is that? What can we learn? Surely we can do better for the existing overall budget, which isn't small - and that absolutely includes staffing costs.
 
What if you don't have any money to invest?

Try and earn some more so you can. Easier said than done i know - and is taking the post too far off topic. All came about because i have a kid who wants to be a nurse and i was staggered at the starting salary.
 
37 years in the Civil Service. 2 promotions in that time. Now at the business end of delivering the biggest welfare reform changes of the last 70 years. Salary is 25 grand.
I like my job on the whole, and the terms and conditions are good. Plus I've never been interested in going higher up the pecking order than where I am now.
However, 25 grand is a bit of a kick in the teeth after nearly 40 years.
 
37 years in the Civil Service. 2 promotions in that time. Now at the business end of delivering the biggest welfare reform changes of the last 70 years. Salary is 25 grand.
I like my job on the whole, and the terms and conditions are good. Plus I've never been interested in going higher up the pecking order than where I am now.
However, 25 grand is a bit of a kick in the teeth after nearly 40 years.

If you're not going to kick up a fuss, and are happy to stay at your current level rather than push up the chain, I'm not sure you'd be getting pay rises in the private sector either...
 
If you're not going to kick up a fuss, and are happy to stay at your current level rather than push up the chain, I'm not sure you'd be getting pay rises in the private sector either...

What do you mean by "kick up a fuss?"
I go in to work, do a good job (to which I bring a wealth of experience and can run rings round others).
What I dont/can't do is be a "Yes" person to those who are determined to climb the ladder. That isn't what the job was ever about. It's about quality.
 
What do you mean by "kick up a fuss?"
I go in to work, do a good job (to which I bring a wealth of experience and can run rings round others).
What I dont/can't do is be a "Yes" person to those who are determined to climb the ladder. That isn't what the job was ever about. It's about quality.

There seems to be a belief within the public sector that private sector employees walk from pay rise to pay rise. But very few private companies (especially larger companies) will give out pay rises when they don't have to. Employees have to request pay rises or move jobs to better paying roles (which I accept public sector workers can't do, but private sector movers tend to have to take on more responsibilities to get more money).
 
My thoughts on this:

Firstly a 1% payrise for the public sector costs the country £1.8bn per year incrementally. This is already £180bn pounds per year, 9% of GDP. It doesn't go away the following year, it's not a 'one-off'. People are incredibly expensive to a business and the NHS are people heavy. Not on the front line, but across the piece.

Secondly the NHS accounts for almost 25% of the total UK budget. That's one in four pounds supporting a very worthwhile cause and most Britons will be supportive of that, but also £1 less that could be spent on education, welfare, defence etc. We have to manage the budget (currently still running a deficit) and that means being responsible with our spending.

Thirdly my biggest gripe with the NHS is the way it is structured. Why do we each have local trusts buying drugs separately? Why can't we use that collective bargaining power to demand cheaper prices? Instead we have the Big Pharma companies turning over billions in profit and holding the NHS to ransom. A paracetamol prescription costs the NHS £3.19. It's available in the shops from 19p. Instead of asking why it costs the NHS 1700% more than it does a supermarket, we ask people not to use prescriptions to obtain paracetamol.

Finally the front line of the NHS is understaffed and clearly the area that needs funding. The government did absolutely the right thing in insisting the increase is self funding, we need to look at how this organisation is run and why we get such little return on that investment (compared to other developed nations).

Yet all I hear is people screaming for more money.
 
There seems to be a belief within the public sector that private sector employees walk from pay rise to pay rise. But very few private companies (especially larger companies) will give out pay rises when they don't have to. Employees have to request pay rises or move jobs to better paying roles (which I accept public sector workers can't do, but private sector movers tend to have to take on more responsibilities to get more money).

I can agree with some of that. However, I don't think there is a bigger responsibility than dealing (every day) with people who are either vulnerable (bereaved, victims of domestic violence) mentally ill (schizophrenic) or suicidal.
And that's just a snapshot.
 
My thoughts on this:

Firstly a 1% payrise for the public sector costs the country £1.8bn per year incrementally. This is already £180bn pounds per year, 9% of GDP. It doesn't go away the following year, it's not a 'one-off'. People are incredibly expensive to a business and the NHS are people heavy. Not on the front line, but across the piece.

Secondly the NHS accounts for almost 25% of the total UK budget. That's one in four pounds supporting a very worthwhile cause and most Britons will be supportive of that, but also £1 less that could be spent on education, welfare, defence etc. We have to manage the budget (currently still running a deficit) and that means being responsible with our spending.

Thirdly my biggest gripe with the NHS is the way it is structured. Why do we each have local trusts buying drugs separately? Why can't we use that collective bargaining power to demand cheaper prices? Instead we have the Big Pharma companies turning over billions in profit and holding the NHS to ransom. A paracetamol prescription costs the NHS £3.19. It's available in the shops from 19p. Instead of asking why it costs the NHS 1700% more than it does a supermarket, we ask people not to use prescriptions to obtain paracetamol.

Finally the front line of the NHS is understaffed and clearly the area that needs funding. The government did absolutely the right thing in insisting the increase is self funding, we need to look at how this organisation is run and why we get such little return on that investment (compared to other developed nations).

Yet all I hear is people screaming for more money.

People stay alive for longer, these days. We can treat people for years with conditions that previously they would have just died of, which of course increases costs

It’s a very complicated issue and not something we will solve on a football forum

Another issue is public opinion. If the government gave public sector workers a significant increase there would be people lining up saying ‘I haven’t a pay rise in years, why should they get one’ - ignoring the fact that they save lives, run into burning buildings, confront terrorists etc. This creates a race to the bottom, one that the government and big business is all too happy to watch happen
 
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