Question for the "Hughes Out" Campaigners

[MCFCinUSA]

I agree with the previous answer to this thread that's it's entirely the wrong question.

Football is a zero sum game, there is only going to be one winner of the EPL every season. Rather than ADUG judge things purely by winning things (although we may be in with a shout at getting something at some point) it might be better to focus on the development of a team with flair and attacking players, and let the rest take care of itself.

For these reasons, and our new outlook (the resources at our disposal) I am yet to be persuaded that our present manager and his team are the ones to get us to where we should be going. Any one of the Dutch school of attacking & fluent footballing coaches would be my pick for the job, and I'd be happy to see a City team trained in and playing total football, which may end up with us winning something at the end of the day but would guarantee us winning 'the fans' irrespective.

I cannot see Hughes doing much of either judging from the performance this season, which has been exceptionally mixed, and the likelihood of him clearing out some of the most talented and pleasing players to watch (when they're allowed to play and in the right system) is a very worrying thought indeed.

 

[Cheltblue]

If we land Mourinho in summer along with Kaka early on, this will open the floodgates for the rest of summer and january,

I can honestly see us winning the premiership next season with no european football to distract us.

I still don't see us making it past the quarter final of any cup competition though - this is City we're talking about.

IF BLACKBURN CAN DO IT, SO CAN WE

Gotta say thats way too optimistic mate, but saying that, no more optomistic than those who think Hughes can win us anything.

 

[bizzbo]

i think objective targets of league placings are reasonable. they are of themselves a worthwhile, and universally recognised indicator of 'success', and of course are required for one of the major medium term goals, qualification for the champions league. City's major task must be to be an established champions league club, which poses the sizable task of breaking into the premiership top four, who by all accounts are already amongst the very top performers in the champions league. Doing this will be extremely difficult, but I think it is reasonable to accept that the major factor is the quality of player the club has. Finishing well in the league is essential to convince talented, ambitious players that they are joining a club that will have a realistic chance of competing in the highest profile competition.

This has been the major disappointment this season. Shortly before the January transfer window opened, we dropped into the relegation zone. Despite MH's comments at the time, I believe this probably hampered us severely in attracting our preferred targets. If we had been in the top six or seven, it would have seemed far more realistic that, with our financial backing, we might be a good choice for high performing players.

Of course ambition comes in more than one form. Players may be attracted to working with a charismatic coach (a la mourinho), or joining a club with a reputation for playing creative, technical, innovative football (a la Arsenal). Unfortunately MH has neither of these things going for him either.

I agree with his ideas that without proper managerial control and a somewhat ruthless, professional, 'winning' culture on a level with that of the existing top four, it would be possibly to assemble an extremely talented squad that could not reach the level required to finish in the top four. However, it is at least as true that without enough high-level players, no squad, however disciplined and determined, would achieve their goal.

Unfortunately, I think MH's aims and ideas may be laudable and correct, but for me, this season, he has not shown enough ability to manage his playing resources to their maximum, nor has he displayed any of the other charectoristics that might attract the top players. As it stands, he is lacking on both sides of the equation.

So, in a roundabout way, my answer to the question is that any target surely depends on the quality and number of players that join the club, but! at the same time, poor performance will reduce the quality of recruits, and the owners would be in danger of perpetually accepting lower targets than might be achievable with a different manager.


can i just also add that of course I recognise that high performers come in many shapes and sizes, and in all of my thinking I am taking it as read that the incoming players have the right type of qualities to push the team forward.

 

[biffa]

Wrong question - it totally depends upon who is in charge. By your rationale there is no need for a manager.

Better question would be - What will we win with MH and what will we win without.

And my answer is probably more or less the same but results will be ground out by MH and he will lose the flair players. I would rather do it with class than bluster. so get rid.

Agree with all this

so do I

 

[biffa]

The thing is, these blues that are defending Hughes are generally doing it out of blind loyalty. If he was sacked in the summer and someone like Mourinho or Riijkaard came in I reckon 95% would be delighted. Hughes shown nothing before he was manager here to be given such a big job and has shown nothing since being given it. If anything this job is doing more harm than good for his reputation.

I would be one of the 5% then, i want this arrogant prick nowhere near OUR club.

lol

 

[Joycee Banercheck]

The thing is, these blues that are defending Hughes are generally doing it out of blind loyalty. If he was sacked in the summer and someone like Mourinho or Riijkaard came in I reckon 95% would be delighted. Hughes shown nothing before he was manager here to be given such a big job and has shown nothing since being given it. If anything this job is doing more harm than good for his reputation.

I would be one of the 5% then, i want this arrogant prick nowhere near OUR club.

lol

How much of a fuck up do you want our team to become, jay? Coz you don't ever sound like you want us to benefit.

 

[Evil Roy Slade]

i think objective targets of league placings are reasonable. they are of themselves a worthwhile, and universally recognised indicator of 'success', and of course are required for one of the major medium term goals, qualification for the champions league. City's major task must be to be an established champions league club, which poses the sizable task of breaking into the premiership top four, who by all accounts are already amongst the very top performers in the champions league. Doing this will be extremely difficult, but I think it is reasonable to accept that the major factor is the quality of player the club has. Finishing well in the league is essential to convince talented, ambitious players that they are joining a club that will have a realistic chance of competing in the highest profile competition.

This has been the major disappointment this season. Shortly before the January transfer window opened, we dropped into the relegation zone. Despite MH's comments at the time, I believe this probably hampered us severely in attracting our preferred targets. If we had been in the top six or seven, it would have seemed far more realistic that, with our financial backing, we might be a good choice for high performing players.

Of course ambition comes in more than one form. Players may be attracted to working with a charismatic coach (a la mourinho), or joining a club with a reputation for playing creative, technical, innovative football (a la Arsenal). Unfortunately MH has neither of these things going for him either.

I agree with his ideas that without proper managerial control and a somewhat ruthless, professional, 'winning' culture on a level with that of the existing top four, it would be possibly to assemble an extremely talented squad that could not reach the level required to finish in the top four. However, it is at least as true that without enough high-level players, no squad, however disciplined and determined, would achieve their goal.

Unfortunately, I think MH's aims and ideas may be laudable and correct, but for me, this season, he has not shown enough ability to manage his playing resources to their maximum, nor has he displayed any of the other charectoristics that might attract the top players. As it stands, he is lacking on both sides of the equation.

So, in a roundabout way, my answer to the question is that any target surely depends on the quality and number of players that join the club, but! at the same time, poor performance will reduce the quality of recruits, and the owners would be in danger of perpetually accepting lower targets than might be achievable with a different manager.


can i just also add that of course I recognise that high performers come in many shapes and sizes, and in all of my thinking I am taking it as read that the incoming players have the right type of qualities to push the team forward.

Eureka

 

[paulgoater]

and the owners would be in danger of perpetually accepting lower targets than might be achievable with a different manager.

I dont think the owners will ever accept lower targets than their relatively short term goal of turning City into a showcase club for Abu Dhabi.

Unfortunately for those of you in the 'Hughes in' camp want the club to develop this way:

awful season > mediocre season > slightly better season > slightly better season > slightly better season > slightly better season > maybe top 4 season > definite top 4 season > win a trophy season

You will be disappointed, because this is NOT what the owners have in mind. They want short term success and a HIGH PROFILE.

Proof of this can be found in the £100 million bid for Kaka.

This is why Hughes will probably be sacked in the summer in favour of a high profile manager.

 

[stonerblue]

If we land Mourinho in summer along with Kaka early on, this will open the floodgates for the rest of summer and january,

I can honestly see us winning the premiership next season with no european football to distract us.

I still don't see us making it past the quarter final of any cup competition though - this is City we're talking about.

IF BLACKBURN CAN DO IT, SO CAN WE

I strongly suggest that speak to your GP about that...

Your 'half full glass' location contradicts your cheap jibe above....where is your optimism?

We are the richest club in the world - anything can happen

We are CITY- anything can happen

 

[paulgoater]

We are CITY- anything can happen

Exactly. I just hope that relegation this season isn't one of them.