Question Time

hilts said:
I’m not even looking at it, I’m anti Eu and don’t vote Tory so how the fuck did the Tories make me vote leave. Your gripe is the people of this country got a say which in fairness is a shit stance to hold.
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No one said you were a tory or that they made you vote leave, non tories, and also left wingers voted leave, the actual votw on the day was not along party lines in any way.

But that is besides the point you made, which was the events and actions (bar the actual referemdum votes of the public) from cameron and the tories adding a ref to the manifesto to the mess we are in now is not down to one political party making bad decission and having bad planning.

No one is denying the public decided to leave, but the proccess has been a shambles from the first day it was concieved at tory HQ with no apparent plan for the outcome of a leave vote.

I voted remain because it was a tory government that was useless already overseeing it , I more than likely would have voted leave had it been a labour government.

But to break it down

Cameron seeing the EU elections return good results for UKIP relents and announces that the manifesto will commit to referemdum in the future, believing remain would win anyway.
He does this while blustering that it will still be dependent, though on the upcoming negotiation in brussels about UK concessions and vetos.
Having annouced such the EU now have the upper hand in the upcoming negotiations as they also expect a remain win if a referendum is called so play hard ball and cameron comes back with fuck all, triggering the fact that a referendum now must be called, still cocky of a remain win.
This cockiness and fear mongering from remain and some empty promises from a more organised and commited campaign from leave result in a leave victory not expected by the government.
The 2 main players in the government fuck off as they hadn't planned for this and niether have the stomach or really care for what is to come.
May puts herself forward pretty much unopposed in the end.
While labour dither and fight each other, those tories that were so vocal during the campaign return to shithousery and sniping, agreeing to help but doing fuckall(Davis), contradicting the PM while serving under her(johnson) and general dickishness.
This means at the start we had no plan and now 2 yeaes later we have a plan the nobody wants.

All presided over by the government and that is why it is the tories fault, yes the people voted for it and narrowly re-elected the tories again, but they expect governance not this mess.
 
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where's that YouGov survey that showed how much we were concerned about the EU until the referendum was called? i can't remember the exact figures but it wasn't exactly a pressing concern, so i don't buy that we've been a nation of 52% rabid eurosceptics just waiting for an opportunity to vote out. the brexiteer line that remainers should've voted lib dem in the last election could be used here - if we were so keen to get out, why didn't 52% of the country vote UKIP in the GE?

brexit is an entirely Tory thing. from the idea to the disaster in implementing. from bean to cup, they fucked up.
 
What’s this? People don’t like democracy? Politicians lied to advance their own agenda? Voters too stupid to know what they were doing?

You guys are talking about Britain and Brexit, not the USA, right?

;-)

P.S. LEAVE! Sovereignty is worth a little pain and disruption (if there is any!) to untangle the country from the European political debacle.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I’m sick of people blaming the Tories for Brexit when anyone with an ounce of common sense knows it was down to thick racists.
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Nobody is blaming the Tories FOR Brexit - just the debacle that has become of it as a result of May and her troupe of clowns taking ownership of it.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
What’s this? People don’t like democracy? Politicians lied to advance their own agenda? Voters too stupid to know what they were doing?

You guys are talking about Britain and Brexit, not the USA, right?

;-)

P.S. LEAVE! Sovereignty is worth a little pain and disruption (if there is any!) to untangle the country from the European political debacle.
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we always had sovereignty. The EU doesn’t. The parallels between Brexit and Trump are deep. I take it you’re a Trump supporter?
 
bluethrunthru said:
Nobody is blaming the Tories FOR Brexit - just the debacle that has become of it as a result of May and her troupe of clowns taking ownership of it.
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That's pretty much indisputable, they've mismanaged this from the Cameron resignation onwards it's been an abject failure. Week on week the proposal is changing and Mavis looks like she's threatening the rebels etc with a no deal Brexit which strangely involves leaving the single market which is what many people voted for and was told was going to happen. Whatever happens it's going to be bad because our leaders have shown themselves up to be feckless and reckless in the extreme, Corbyn gets a mention too because he's dithered on the sidelines not prepared to throw his hat in the ring.

Rest assured whichever way we end up going the fat Cats will be A OK.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Nobody is blaming the Tories FOR Brexit - just the debacle that has become of it as a result of May and her troupe of clowns taking ownership of it.
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I for one would blame the Tories for Brexit.
The referendum was all down to a err.......TORY PM.
No referendum, no Brexit.
Labour would not have held a referendum.
Simples really.
This whole existential crisis is due to the Tory Party psychodrama being played out in the country.
 
Len Rum said:
I for one would blame the Tories for Brexit.
The referendum was all down to a err.......TORY PM.
No referendum, no Brexit.
Labour would not have held a referendum.
Simples really.
This whole existential crisis is due to the Tory Party psychodrama being played out in the country.
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some were disagreeing last night - couldn't provide an alternative however, just answered questions that were never asked in the first place !

Neither of the major parties come out of this well Len but at the end of the day if its a disaster - and the fulfilment of the promises made at the time of the referendum would be the bare minimum that can reasonably be accepted by the electorate - then blame will be dished out at the next GE and the chief recipients will be the Tory party because Brexit has been owned by them from the start. Johnson minor has given voice to the opinion that I am sure many within the party know to be true - that they face damnation from Brexiteer and Remainer alike if/when things go tits up.
 
joe123 said:
where's that YouGov survey that showed how much we were concerned about the EU until the referendum was called? i can't remember the exact figures but it wasn't exactly a pressing concern, so i don't buy that we've been a nation of 52% rabid eurosceptics just waiting for an opportunity to vote out. the brexiteer line that remainers should've voted lib dem in the last election could be used here - if we were so keen to get out, why didn't 52% of the country vote UKIP in the GE?

brexit is an entirely Tory thing. from the idea to the disaster in implementing. from bean to cup, they fucked up.
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I was talking to my wife about this last night. Before the referendum I don't even remember having a single meaningful conversation with anyone about the EU. Now Leave voters are retrofitting their anti-immigrant or anti-establishment vote in the referendum by pretending they always hated the EU itself. I reckon the only people who really did "hate" the EU were the posh boys, educated but daft Tory louts, the Boris types...the ones who hanker for empire and don't trust Johnny Foreigner.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
What’s this? People don’t like democracy? Politicians lied to advance their own agenda? Voters too stupid to know what they were doing?

You guys are talking about Britain and Brexit, not the USA, right?

;-)

P.S. LEAVE! Sovereignty is worth a little pain and disruption (if there is any!) to untangle the country from the European political debacle.
Click to expand...

We must be as thick as constipated horseshit in the UK considering the shysters we end up with in Westminster!!
 
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