Question Time

[bluethrunthru]

Yes absolutely - the bible being the prime/earliest example I suppose. I can understand the removal of the 'n' word from twain, but the Dahl revisionism of words like 'fat' and 'ugly' feels like low level pettyness.

Original copies will remain on sale I understand and there are 2nd hand booksellers who will happily satisfy a readers need to have people called fat lol

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Original copies will remain on sale I understand and there are 2nd hand booksellers who will happily satisfy a readers need to have people called fat lol

Yes, but it's the need to do this at all that's odd. Shakespeare and Chaucer will need doing next.
If someone is upset by an imaginary character in a work of fiction being labeled fat/ugly etc then they probably have issues they need to sort out with themselves rather than police literature. My concern is not so much what's happening to Danny champion of the world but the general trajectory and direction of travel.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Yes, but it's the need to do this at all that's odd. Shakespeare and Chaucer will need doing next.
If someone is upset by an imaginary character in a work of fiction being labeled fat/ugly etc then they probably have issues they need to sort out with themselves rather than police literature. My concern is not so much what's happening to Danny champion of the world but the general trajectory and direction of travel.

Their concern is that either when their child reads Dahl or when they read the books to them calling a character fat for amusement normalises doing so and is funny hence they bring up a kid who bullies the fat kid at school calling them fat to get everyone to laugh at the fat kid.

A lot of the commentators in the press who are stirring this up don't actually care and don't read the books currently but its something they are paid to do. On request they will knock out an article on childrens mental health and bullying at school - fat shaming in schools and stabbings in schools when a bullied fat kid stabs their tormentor - its all in a days work for them - they wring their hands and pull peoples strings purely for money.

 

[Chris in London]

Yes, but it's the need to do this at all that's odd. Shakespeare and Chaucer will need doing next.
If someone is upset by an imaginary character in a work of fiction being labeled fat/ugly etc then they probably have issues they need to sort out with themselves rather than police literature. My concern is not so much what's happening to Danny champion of the world but the general trajectory and direction of travel.

Were you offended when the racist elements were edited out of Agatha Christie or Enid Blyton?

The general direction of travel is not a new phenomenon

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Their concern is that either when their child reads Dahl or when they read the books to them calling a character fat for amusement normalises doing so and is funny hence they bring up a kid who bullies the fat kid at school calling them fat to get everyone to laugh at the fat kid.

A lot of the commentators in the press who are stirring this up don't actually care and don't read the books currently but its something they are paid to do. On request they will knock out an article on childrens mental health and bullying at school - fat shaming in schools and stabbings in schools when a bullied fat kid stabs their tormentor - its all in a days work for them - they wring their hands and pull peoples strings purely for money.

Maybe the problem lies with parenting and diet rather than literature?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Were you offended when the racist elements were edited out of Agatha Christie or Enid Blyton?

The general direction of travel is not a new phenomenon

I'm not offended generally by anything tbh as it's a waste of time. I think there is a difference between editing out racism and things like fat/ugly, although like getting rid of statues there is an element of concealing the evidence and rewriting history at work too.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Maybe the problem lies with parenting and diet rather than literature?

yeah - probably best not to read books to your toddler and ensure they never learn to read then nothing will offend them

 

[Chris in London]

I'm not offended generally by anything tbh as it's a waste of time. I think there is a difference between editing out racism and things like fat/ugly, although like getting rid of statues there is an element of concealing the evidence and rewriting history at work too.

What is the difference, precisely, between editing based on removing hateful comments based on race and editing out hateful comments based on ugliness? Both are characteristics over which you have no control.

(Being fat may or may not be self inflicted)

 

[Lupo]

Lol

That's a friend of mine and her daughter

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

What is the difference, precisely, between editing based on removing hateful comments based on race and editing out hateful comments based on ugliness? Both are characteristics over which you have no control.

(Being fat may or may not be self inflicted)

I think there is a huge difference tbh and the two are in no way equivalent, and I'm a bit of a fatty.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

yeah - probably best not to read books to your toddler and ensure they never learn to read then nothing will offend them

Ultimately yes, or just accept that occasionally in life we may be offended. If we ban vehicles we could cut right down of traffic accidents too and the roads would be much safer to cross ;-)

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Yes, but it's the need to do this at all that's odd. Shakespeare and Chaucer will need doing next.

You say that like the Canterbury Tales you'd buy now is the same one that Chaucer wrote. I had a version that was in the original Middle English, and it's practically unreadable. It's be edited shitloads.

It also works the other way. I remember watching a video about the making of Deadwood, where they talked about having to make a decision about the swearing. The original script had period-accurate swearing, but when they showed it to modern audiences, they found it hilarious. To get the message across, they had to use language that was meaningful to a modern audience. One of the reasons that racist jokes from the 70s are not funny anymore isn't just because they're offensive, it's because attitudes have changed to the point that no-one gets them. People just won't get a joke based on stereotypes that were prevalent 50 years ago. Similarly, it's not a massive issue to edit a kids book to reflect modern culture (which isn't to say that some of the individual decisions aren't ridiculous - perhaps deliberately so to create publicity). Having said that, as one author said when discussing this, it'd be far better to start pushing talented modern children's authors rather than editing the books of a long-dead one so they can continue to dominate the market.

 

[Chris in London]

I think there is a huge difference tbh and the two are in no way equivalent, and I'm a bit of a fatty.

And the difference is?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

And the difference is?

Fat isn't a race, it's caused by eating too much.

 

[BrianW]

You say that like the Canterbury Tales you'd buy now is the same one that Chaucer wrote. I had a version that was in the original Middle English, and it's practically unreadable. It's be edited shitloads.

It also works the other way. I remember watching a video about the making of Deadwood, where they talked about having to make a decision about the swearing. The original script had period-accurate swearing, but when they showed it to modern audiences, they found it hilarious. To get the message across, they had to use language that was meaningful to a modern audience. One of the reasons that racist jokes from the 70s are not funny anymore isn't just because they're offensive, it's because attitudes have changed to the point that no-one gets them. People just won't get a joke based on stereotypes that were prevalent 50 years ago. Similarly, it's not a massive issue to edit a kids book to reflect modern culture (which isn't to say that some of the individual decisions aren't ridiculous - perhaps deliberately so to create publicity). Having said that, as one author said when discussing this, it'd be far better to start pushing talented modern children's authors rather than editing the books of a long-dead one so they can continue to dominate the market.

Do you mean you don't read Middle English?

Shocking! Our education system is not fit for purpose. I blame Jeremy Corbyn. And the EU.

Signed, William Langland.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Fat isn't a race, it's caused by eating too much.

Some races are more prone to obesity than others...

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Some races are more prone to obesity than others...

Yes, and being ginger too.

 

[Chris in London]

Fat isn't a race, it's caused by eating too much.

Speak for yourself

You still didn’t answer my question

 

[mexico1970]

I stopped watching question time when Brexit was going on and haven't been back since, it's a comedy it has little to no bearing on politics at all.

Add to that all the plants in the audience and love island is more of an honest show.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Speak for yourself

You still didn’t answer my question

That is my answer, you just don't like it.