Rabbi Matondo

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twosips said:
I actually don't think they're holding the club to ransom because they're not getting games at 18, more leaving because they know they won't get them at 19/20/21 either. They're just cutting to the chase and not wasting three years of their career on pointless naff loans/scratching their arses in the terrible u23s league. As someone said, not a single academy lad started in the PL for us for 6 years...and even that was a bit of a farce due to a mass injury crisis. Great education, yeah, but very little job prospects beyond that.

I always think of it like getting a scholarship at some massive company, which gives you access to all the best training the sector has to offer, but you know getting a promotion past 'junior' level is nigh on impossible given the quality of employees there (you've heard tales of some guy working as an intern for 18 months essentially unpaid getting increasingly frustrated etc), so you leave to an emerging company who has an exciting rep, though smaller, but one will step you up and trust you knowing you have that great education. You get a promotion as you take the job, you're a priority in a small team - you fully well know that you'll probably be able to progress quicker there and then go back to that big company as a senior member of staff 3/4 years down the line.
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No problem of players at 18 thinking there good enough to move on get game time or start games.
 
Give it a few years, and the realities of how difficult it is to create an endless stream of home-grown world class players (nothing else will do for City) will permeate the fan base. There will always be knockers, but the majority will realise that City's quest to be THE dominant force in club football means hard decisions have to be taken. To put it another way, I took a while to get over SWP joining the chavs, and reading Paul Hince's advice to City fans, that the reality is that City were "a feeder club" to the elite. How times have changed.
 
twosips said:
I actually don't think they're holding the club to ransom because they're not getting games at 18, more leaving because they know they won't get them at 19/20/21 either. They're just cutting to the chase and not wasting three years of their career on pointless naff loans/scratching their arses in the terrible u23s league. As someone said, not a single academy lad started in the PL for us for 6 years...and even that was a bit of a farce due to a mass injury crisis. Great education, yeah, but very little job prospects beyond that.

I always think of it like getting a scholarship at some massive company, which gives you access to all the best training the sector has to offer, but you know getting a promotion past 'junior' level is nigh on impossible given the quality of employees there (you've heard tales of some guy working as an intern for 18 months essentially unpaid getting increasingly frustrated etc), so you leave to an emerging company who has an exciting rep, though smaller, but one will step you up and trust you knowing you have that great education. You get a promotion as you take the job, you're a priority in a small team - you fully well know that you'll probably be able to progress quicker there and then go back to that big company as a senior member of staff 3/4 years down the line.
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Though I understand your point, it is absolutely clear that the situation regarding academy players will change very soon, regarding first team PL appearances. The nucleus of talent has not been there to break through into the highest levels of world football but it is clear that Phil Foden will break that statistic.

I really want academy players to break through but they do have to be exceptional, and exceptionally patient and determined.
 
oldius said:
Though I understand your point, it is absolutely clear that the situation regarding academy players will change very soon, regarding first team PL appearances. The nucleus of talent has not been there to break through into the highest levels of world football but it is clear that Phil Foden will break that statistic.

I really want academy players to break through but they do have to be exceptional, and exceptionally patient and determined.
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I don't think it's absolutely clear tbh mate. Phil might (and probably will), but its worth pointing out that Pep had him training with the first team from 16 onwards. Brahim and Sancho similarly. If you're Matondo, and you're 19 next season, and you've not already been 'picked out' to train with Pep every week as part of the first team squad, you might be thinking 'well, I guess i'm not seen in the same light'. Otherwise Pep would have made him a similar project, no? It's a reasonable conclusion. IMO you can absolutely tell the ones who have a chance. Pep calls them up to train with the first team squad. Only Brahim and Foden have had that honour so far - Sancho would have had it too I guess. Those three were soon as diamonds.

Edit - wanna add too that Pep basically name checks the ones he likes frequently. 12/18 months ago he was talking a lot about Foden and co. He made it pretty clear he saw them as exceptions. If you're Matondo and you've been training that close to the first team for ages and Pep's not singled you out yet, like he did with the golden trio, he's probably taking a big hint.
 
bellbuzzer said:
Give it a few years, and the realities of how difficult it is to create an endless stream of home-grown world class players (nothing else will do for City) will permeate the fan base. There will always be knockers, but the majority will realise that City's quest to be THE dominant force in club football means hard decisions have to be taken. To put it another way, I took a while to get over SWP joining the chavs, and reading Paul Hince's advice to City fans, that the reality is that City were "a feeder club" to the elite. How times have changed.
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Now we're a feeder club of youth talent to the lower elite.
 
bellbuzzer said:
Give it a few years, and the realities of how difficult it is to create an endless stream of home-grown world class players (nothing else will do for City) will permeate the fan base. There will always be knockers, but the majority will realise that City's quest to be THE dominant force in club football means hard decisions have to be taken. To put it another way, I took a while to get over SWP joining the chavs, and reading Paul Hince's advice to City fans, that the reality is that City were "a feeder club" to the elite. How times have changed.
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Well considering that there’s a good chance we won’t the league this season, that would make it 1 league title in 5 years. So if we are on a quest to become the dominant force in club football we’re currently failing pretty miserably.
 
K10&S21 said:
you fail to mention or downplay one of the major failures in our policy to youth. we sign 14-16 year players and lose them by 18. Instead we should concentrate on signing 18-20 year olds. then send some on loan and then when they return back we should give them a chance in the first team.
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Isn't that what we have done with Garcia, Gomes and the lad from Ipswich?
 
twosips said:
I actually don't think they're holding the club to ransom because they're not getting games at 18, more leaving because they know they won't get them at 19/20/21 either. They're just cutting to the chase and not wasting three years of their career on pointless naff loans/scratching their arses in the terrible u23s league. As someone said, not a single academy lad started in the PL for us for 6 years...and even that was a bit of a farce due to a mass injury crisis. Great education, yeah, but very little job prospects beyond that.

I always think of it like getting a scholarship at some massive company, which gives you access to all the best training the sector has to offer, but you know getting a promotion past 'junior' level is nigh on impossible given the quality of employees there (you've heard tales of some guy working as an intern for 18 months essentially unpaid getting increasingly frustrated etc), so you leave to an emerging company who has an exciting rep, though smaller, but one will step you up and trust you knowing you have that great education. You get a promotion as you take the job, you're a priority in a small team - you fully well know that you'll probably be able to progress quicker there and then go back to that big company as a senior member of staff 3/4 years down the line.
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I think this is exactly how you have to look at it, at the moment that is. We are giving these lads just about the best footballing and non-footballing education that money can buy, and, as long as they keep working hard, setting them up for life. As long as we get decent fees, sell on and/or buy back clauses etc we should be happy that the academy is doing a good job.

I do think that Brexit could be a game changer though, and we will have to look closer to home for talent and may also have to be readier to promote from within to the first team ranks.
 
If we lose Matondo and Poveda (rumours of BOTH leaving), then I will mentally check out on anything related to the academy.

I have already lowered my expectations drastically, I knew we would bleed talent (and we have), but to lose literally ALL the talent that has a chance to step up is ridiculous, for which the club AND Pep should take blame.
 
WallyA said:
If we lose Matondo and Poveda (rumours of BOTH leaving), then I will mentally check out on anything related to the academy.

I have already lowered my expectations drastically, I knew we would bleed talent (and we have), but to lose literally ALL the talent that has a chance to step up is ridiculous, for which the club AND Pep should take blame.
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Ridiculous.

Who are you dropping to play Poveda and Matondo, neither of which have kicked a first team football at any level. Neither are generational talents which is what it takes to succeed at this level. Look at any player aged u19 playing at any of the top 10 clubs in Europe, they are potential generational talents or they are at clubs e.g. PSG who have no competition domestically so can play a lot more youth players.
 
decmancity said:
Ridiculous.

Who are you dropping to play Poveda and Matondo, neither of which have kicked a first team football at any level. Neither are generational talents which is what it takes to succeed at this level. Look at any player aged u19 playing at any of the top 10 clubs in Europe, they are potential generational talents or they are at clubs e.g. PSG who have no competition domestically so can play a lot more youth players.
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Your comment is why we never get academy players at the club anymore. Ridiculous, really?

Think about all the times we have been 2 or 3 nil up. Your telling me if we sub ONE PLAYER on for like 30 minutes it will go to shit? That's the ridiculous line of thinking. More likely is that the academy sub player will have fresh legs and 100% determination to work his ass off to atleast keep the team level on score, and maybe show us star quality.
 
WallyA said:
Your comment is why we never get academy players at the club anymore. Ridiculous, really?

Think about all the times we have been 2 or 3 nil up. Your telling me if we sub ONE PLAYER on for like 30 minutes it will go to shit? That's the ridiculous line of thinking. More likely is that the academy sub player will have fresh legs and 100% determination to work his ass off to atleast keep the team level on score, and maybe show us star quality.
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What do you mean we never get any academy players? from my research it looks like we are still recruiting some of the best players out there.

I agree with that sentiment, but what is Pep going to do? Stick Sane in the stands so Poveda can go on the bench?

Our squad is simply too strong and the senior players won't just sit in the stands to allow a youth lad in front of them.
 
decmancity said:
What do you mean we never get any academy players? from my research it looks like we are still recruiting some of the best players out there.

I agree with that sentiment, but what is Pep going to do? Stick Sane in the stands so Poveda can go on the bench?

Our squad is simply too strong and the senior players won't just sit in the stands to allow a youth lad in front of them.
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I don't even know where to start.

I OBVIOUSLY meant academy players into the team, I don't care about recruiting FOR the academy if its leads to nothing for the team.

Sane and Raz are our starting wingers and have played so much, there have even been games where one of them were NOT on the bench or starting line up to rest them.
This is where the academy lads gets on the bench.

Senior players would accept not being on the bench, because its a full day of rest, some of these players have played TOO much, they are not spoiled brats, that will take the day off.

Anyways, like I mentioned before I will just mentally check out of all of this if we lose them, just can't care anymore.
 
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