Racism in Football

[Ban-jani]

Odd how Spurs can't find their own fan but can find a Chelsea fan against their own player.

Liverpool would be proud

I think some Chelsea fan(s) reported it at the time mate.

 

[moz]

Creep back in ?

It's never been away

The bias against our club is not about money

Money has always been around in football

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

I honestly think the racist stuff is one or two people, maybe 3 or 4 but it isnt what we see in other countries. It isnt whole sections of fans or the whole stand. What concerns me more right now is the number of crowd misbehaviour things and I am sure that is driving the racism, and maybe even caused by VAR being as divisive/controversial as it has been at games where there is trouble.

The racism stinks though, those people should be "re-educated". They will obviously get banned but tbh I think their employer should be warned/informed.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

The one 'good thing' about this is that it is one of the rare things that, as fans, we can do something directly about.

If anyone near you chants racist stuff tell them to STFU

 

[caseball]

Great isn't it? They can pinpoint one guy in 60000 who said something a bit naughty to a player but they can't let 60000 in on what the refs are saying to each other.

 

[urban genie]

Unfortunately casual racism, xenophobia and stereotyping has never truly left the game, but those that like to use it and think that way, until recently have kept their council, somehow it has now become obvious that some feel more emboldened to not hide such thoughts.

Along side that is the unconscious comments like after all in recent time we had fans singing a song about park looking like a crispy duck, tevez as an argie **** in his rag days, and peoples personal opinions of McClean become vitriolic rants about being Irish or catholic, now I know McCleans stance is contraversial and upsets many and I don't agree with him but still the words "Irish taig ****" as I heard the other year at WBA is offensive to more than just him and yet all those above comments will not be percieved as either racist or xenophobic by the perpetrators.

Arsenals and spurs adeybayor song, those chelsea fans in paris the other year and other exampkes show that though not as widespread as in say italy or eastern europe an element is still around.

Only getting back to fans self policing and calling out or reporting such so these people don't feel comfortable voicing such stuff will we help stamp it out.

 

[JimB]

Odd how Spurs can't find their own fan but can find a Chelsea fan against their own player.

Liverpool would be proud

There's a good reason for that. Specifically, that there was no racism directed at Rudiger. I am 99.9% certain of it. I should know.......because I am one of the fans, I believe, who is responsible for Rudiger's accusation. I was at the very front of the south stand, adjacent to where the Son sending off took place. There can't have been a fan in the stadium who was closer than me to where it all unfolded.

By way of background, for what it's worth, I have no real argument with Son's sending off. He did make a slight, if aborted, move of his feet towards Rudiger as he tumbled. Silly, spur of the moment action that, in today's game, will always result in a red card if spotted. Nevertheless, that can't excuse Rudiger's reaction. Mourinho said it best when he sarcastically wished the Chelsea defender a speedy recovery from the multiple broken ribs that he must have suffered. There is nothing more cowardly within football than feigning injury in order to get an opposition player sent off.

So, as English football fans are wont to do in such circumstances, we all chanted "cheat, cheat, cheat, cheat..." at Rudiger. It was at that specific moment that he turned and gestured angrily at us. And immediately went to his captain / the referee to complain about having been the target of monkey noises. So I am convinced that this entire controversy is based on a misunderstanding on Rudiger's part. When English is not your first language and when you are unfamiliar with English fan culture, 5000 or so English fans chanting "cheat, cheat, cheat...." unsynchronised could, I suspect, sound very much like monkey noises. The timing of Rudiger's angry reaction towards the fans and immediately subsequent discussions with the referee confirms that suspicion. The only alternative is that Rudiger is claiming that he heard a lone voice making monkey noises. And if that is the case, then I say that Rudiger is a liar. Not the remotest chance that he could have isolated that above the din of 5000 fans shouting "cheat".

Spurs, and specifically Spurs fans, are owed an apology.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

There's a good reason for that. Specifically, that there was no racism directed at Rudiger. I am 99.9% certain of it. I should know.......because I am one of the fans, I believe, who is responsible for Rudiger's accusation. I was at the very front of the south stand, adjacent to where the Son sending off took place. There can't have been a fan in the stadium who was closer than me to where it all unfolded.

By way of background, for what it's worth, I have no real argument with Son's sending off. He did make a slight, if aborted, move of his feet towards Rudiger as he tumbled. Silly, spur of the moment action that, in today's game, will always result in a red card if spotted. Nevertheless, that can't excuse Rudiger's reaction. Mourinho said it best when he sarcastically wished the Chelsea defender a speedy recovery from the multiple broken ribs that he must have suffered. There is nothing more cowardly within football than feigning injury in order to get an opposition player sent off.

So, as English football fans are wont to do in such circumstances, we all chanted "cheat, cheat, cheat, cheat..." at Rudiger. It was at that specific moment that he turned and gestured angrily at us. And immediately went to his captain / the referee to complain about having been the target of monkey noises. So I am convinced that this entire controversy is based on a misunderstanding on Rudiger's part. When English is not your first language and when you are unfamiliar with English fan culture, 5000 or so English fans chanting "cheat, cheat, cheat...." unsynchronised could, I suspect, sound very much like monkey noises. The timing of Rudiger's angry reaction towards the fans and immediately subsequent discussions with the referee confirms that suspicion. The only alternative is that Rudiger is claiming that he heard a lone voice making monkey noises. And if that is the case, then I say that Rudiger is a liar. Not the remotest chance that he could have isolated that above the din of 5000 fans shouting "cheat".

Spurs, and specifically Spurs fans, are owed an apology.

I have to say, the rush to judgement in this instance is sadly reflective of how wider society now operates around allegations against individuals. Within a few short hours, and without any apparent further corroborating evidence, it became received wisdom that racist chanting definitively occurred, rather than there subsisted such an allegation.

For a wide variety of reasons, any such allegation has to deserve a greater degree of objective and evidential scrutiny than has been forthcoming hitherto. It appears that in the world we inhabit today, some people have lost the power of objective analysis and independent thought, but I refuse to become one of them.

Maybe there was racist chanting, maybe it was an innocent mistake, but presently I have insufficient information to evaluate which is the most likely - and anyone who suggests otherwise, who wasn’t there, is being intellectually dishonest. How the fuck can anyone who wasn’t there say with any certainty that racist chanting, as alleged, actually occurred? They simply cannot know.

Anyone who makes a racist chant or gesture should be subject to heavy sanction and curtailment of rights, especially where it takes place in a sporting arena, but as yet I’ve seen nothing to convince me that this is what happened on Sunday.

Happy to make my mind up when presented with more probative evidence than I have seen to date.

 

[JimB]

I have to say, the rush to judgement in this instance is sadly reflective of how wider society now operates around allegations against individuals. Within a few short hours, and without any apparent further corroborating evidence, it became received wisdom that racist chanting definitively occurred, rather than there subsisted such an allegation.

For a wide variety of reasons, any such allegation has to deserve a greater degree of objective and evidential scrutiny than has been forthcoming hitherto. It appears that in the world we inhabit today, some people have lost the power of objective analysis and independent thought, but I refuse to become one of them.

Maybe there was racist chanting, maybe it was an innocent mistake, but presently I have insufficient information to evaluate which is the most likely - and anyone who suggests otherwise, who wasn’t there, is being intellectually dishonest. How the fuck can anyone who wasn’t there say with any certainty that racist chanting, as alleged, actually occurred? They simply cannot know.

Anyone who makes a racist chant or gesture should be subject to heavy sanction and curtailment of rights, especially where it takes place in a sporting arena, but as yet I’ve seen nothing to convince me that this is what happened on Sunday.

Happy to make my mind up when presented with more probative evidence than I have seen to date.

The evidence, or rather lack of it, has already been forensically examined. Spurs currently have the most modern, most technologically advanced stadium in Europe, if not the world. There isn't a seat in the house that isn't covered by high resolution CCTV. Spurs and the police, have found nothing. And not because they have anything that they wish to hide. They are fanatical about anti racism - especially because Spurs fans have probably been subjected to racism more than fans of any other club. Indeed, before Sunday, I've never heard announcements against racist behaviour blaring out mid-game over the PA system anywhere else.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The evidence, or rather lack of it, has already been forensically examined. Spurs currently have the most modern, most technologically advanced stadium in Europe, if not the world. There isn't a seat in the house that isn't covered by high resolution CCTV. Spurs and the police, have found nothing. And not because they have anything that they wish to hide. They are fanatical about anti racism - especially because Spurs fans have probably been subjected to racism more than fans of any other club. Indeed, before Sunday, I've never heard announcements against racist behaviour blaring out mid-game over the PA system anywhere else.

That’s all fair point. Given the coverage in the stadium to which you refer, I guess the lack of corroborating evidence to date must make it less likely that it took place, but my mind is still very much open to persuasion, either way; unlike others, who seem to blindly accept what they are told to think.