Recruitment issues

This summer we didn't need hidden gems, we needed players who would step into the first team straight away & make it better
It’s tough as a blue to think that Aouar, Alcantara, Fabinho and van Dijk have all seemed like perfect players for what we’ve needed at the time that they’ve been sold for very reasonable prices (ok, Aouar hasn’t been sold yet) yet we’ve ended up with an immobile Rodri, a left back that nobody trusts, a string of central defenders who have failed to be a long term solution and no fit strikers for the first home game of a season.
 
We definitely have a serious issue with our defensive recruitment. I don't know if its poor scouting, or poor defensive coaching in general (long list of CBs who thrived after leaving us) but we always seem to have had frailties at the back.

That being said though, we need to draw the line in the sand and not let's clubs take the piss with inflated transfer fees. I'm actually glad we have fucked off from Koulibaly due to Napoli trying to continously inflate their fee. And I also believe he is a far better long term signing that KK.

But we should avoid the Man Utd approach of spending €100m on a boy thats all ego and doesn't perform. We buy at a good level and train them to become world class...hopefully.
 
At the risk of coming across like a fool, wouldn't it make more sense to wait until we've got our players back and fit and played a couple games more to overcome the lack of preseason before we decide that everything about the team is shit?

It's a myth that our defensive stability was mostly down to Fernandinho, not that he was the best DM around. You are conflating two different things.

If last season we had both Kompany and Laporte in the form they showed in 2019, we would have been a completely different team. Posts like yours underestimate the CB crisis we had and overestimate the defensive protection Fernandinho provided. It will become clear already this season once Dias and Laporte form a partnership (fingers crossed!). We can be solid in defence even without Fernandinho in midfield (which doesn't imply that he wasn't the best DM in the world August 2017/February 2019).

Unfortunately with discussion of Fernandinho and everyone else for that matter things take extremes. Either he's perfect or he's awful. Can't be anything in between. No levels. Flawless or useless. At the back end of 16/17 people were just starting to suggest Silva and De Bruyne might not have been up to it. How right they were!

As you've pointed out though, there's much more nuance to this. You're right pointing out about Fern/Gundogan in 2019, but what you can actually extend from this is the De Bruyne injuries that season. We won the league with 99 points ahead of THAT Liverpool side without our best player for most of the season.

What made that team so strong was the lack of need for one player. Admittedly Bernardo stepped up big time that season, but the point is that everyone was working so hard and was so 'on it' that the team carried its players, not the other way around. Every player in that team had somebody who could step in and not ruin the quality of the side. The only possible exceptions were Ederson and Silva, the latter of whom I do believe has caused us an issue with his departure (more so than anyone else has or could).

Pep spoke about belief as of late, and it's concerning to hear but I believe it. We're timid. We don't press as well as often. Our defenders are perpetually uncertain of themselves, when they all have so much to offer. I think what's happened during last season has crushed these players a bit mentally. Although it's not impossible to recover from things like that, thankfully. It was belief that forced us over the line in 18/19 and in 17/18 belief was often spoke about with how we ground out winners by playing the same way and not abandoning ourselves.

You stick Rodri in that 17-19 side instead of Fernandinho and things probably won't be much different. We might have been a bit better, maybe a bit worse (which in 18/19 admittedly could have been costly). But not much different. If you stick 16-17 Touré in there, the same. It doesn't mean Fernandinho wasn't super high quality, it just means he wasn't single-handedly holding the side together. We had the much maligned Mahrez ahead of Sané in 18/19 and it worked. We probably could have stuck Jesus ahead of Aguero and in those years we would have been fine (to be clear not saying we should have, Aguero worked excellently enough).
On that note, you stick Fabinho in our 19/20 team instead of Rodri, he'll have the same problems. At Liverpool all he has are runners, it's a different story at City. Fernandinho too, as much as people wouldn't believe it.


The big positive is that first half v Wolves. Fitness wasn't an issue, we had verve and belief and importantly, we had a front three of Jesus, Foden, and Sterling, and we had Stones and Aké at the back. The front 3 pressed like hounds. Stones and Aké are both really good at stepping up and nullifying attacks early on the halfway line with press. All that meant was we could physically bully them, particularly thanks to Rodri, Fernandinho, Walker, and even Mendy. Even though we suffer majorly through a lack of control high up without Silva, Jesus and Foden are excellent at linking up play and bringing De Bruyne into the game in dangerous areas.

If after the international break when we've got close to a clean slate of health, our players are fitter, and Torres is more settled, we're still conceded 5 every game, then yeah a discussion about the apocalypse might be necessary. But until then I think people should chill on downplaying absolutely everything to the most negative extremes, particularly about recruitment which as you said wasn't a problem when we were winning.

Much like 16/17 going into 17/18 (with mostly the same players), it just takes a spark.
 
At the risk of coming across like a fool, wouldn't it make more sense to wait until we've got our players back and fit and played a couple games more to overcome the lack of preseason before we decide that everything about the team is shit?



Unfortunately with discussion of Fernandinho and everyone else for that matter things take extremes. Either he's perfect or he's awful. Can't be anything in between. No levels. Flawless or useless. At the back end of 16/17 people were just starting to suggest Silva and De Bruyne might not have been up to it. How right they were!

As you've pointed out though, there's much more nuance to this. You're right pointing out about Fern/Gundogan in 2019, but what you can actually extend from this is the De Bruyne injuries that season. We won the league with 99 points ahead of THAT Liverpool side without our best player for most of the season.

What made that team so strong was the lack of need for one player. Admittedly Bernardo stepped up big time that season, but the point is that everyone was working so hard and was so 'on it' that the team carried its players, not the other way around. Every player in that team had somebody who could step in and not ruin the quality of the side. The only possible exceptions were Ederson and Silva, the latter of whom I do believe has caused us an issue with his departure (more so than anyone else has or could).

Pep spoke about belief as of late, and it's concerning to hear but I believe it. We're timid. We don't press as well as often. Our defenders are perpetually uncertain of themselves, when they all have so much to offer. I think what's happened during last season has crushed these players a bit mentally. Although it's not impossible to recover from things like that, thankfully. It was belief that forced us over the line in 18/19 and in 17/18 belief was often spoke about with how we ground out winners by playing the same way and not abandoning ourselves.

You stick Rodri in that 17-19 side instead of Fernandinho and things probably won't be much different. We might have been a bit better, maybe a bit worse (which in 18/19 admittedly could have been costly). But not much different. If you stick 16-17 Touré in there, the same. It doesn't mean Fernandinho wasn't super high quality, it just means he wasn't single-handedly holding the side together. We had the much maligned Mahrez ahead of Sané in 18/19 and it worked. We probably could have stuck Jesus ahead of Aguero and in those years we would have been fine (to be clear not saying we should have, Aguero worked excellently enough).
On that note, you stick Fabinho in our 19/20 team instead of Rodri, he'll have the same problems. At Liverpool all he has are runners, it's a different story at City. Fernandinho too, as much as people wouldn't believe it.


The big positive is that first half v Wolves. Fitness wasn't an issue, we had verve and belief and importantly, we had a front three of Jesus, Foden, and Sterling, and we had Stones and Aké at the back. The front 3 pressed like hounds. Stones and Aké are both really good at stepping up and nullifying attacks early on the halfway line with press. All that meant was we could physically bully them, particularly thanks to Rodri, Fernandinho, Walker, and even Mendy. Even though we suffer majorly through a lack of control high up without Silva, Jesus and Foden are excellent at linking up play and bringing De Bruyne into the game in dangerous areas.

If after the international break when we've got close to a clean slate of health, our players are fitter, and Torres is more settled, we're still conceded 5 every game, then yeah a discussion about the apocalypse might be necessary. But until then I think people should chill on downplaying absolutely everything to the most negative extremes, particularly about recruitment which as you said wasn't a problem when we were winning.

Much like 16/17 going into 17/18 (with mostly the same players), it just takes a spark.
Not a chance
 
Not a chance
Go on. Elaborate. Break down my arguments in the four paragraphs leading up to that statement and rest of the paragraph you quoted and prove to me how I'm so wrong. I'm more than happy to be wrong if I am as such. It's a discussion forum after all. Discuss.

You're not adding anything taking away 95% of a post and picking on 1 sentence out of context. What are you, a journalist at The Independent?
 
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Go on. Elaborate. Break down my arguments in the four paragraphs leading up to that statement and rest of the paragraph you quoted and prove to me how I'm so wrong. I'm more than happy to be wrong if I am as such. It's a discussion forum after all. Discuss.

You're not adding anything taking away 95% of a post and picking on 1 sentence out of context. What are you, a journalist at The Independent?
Just don’t get city fans who underrate Fern. “If you stick 16-17 Touré in there, the same” - Touré could hardly run at that point, are on the wind up?

Every player in that 17-18 side complimented each other perfectly. Very few all round midfielders like Fern which is why we’ve struggled so much replacing him.

 
Just don’t get city fans who underrate Fern. “If you stick 16-17 Touré in there, the same” - Touré could hardly run at that point, are on the wind up?

Every player in that 17-18 side complimented each other perfectly. Very few all round midfielders like Fern which is why we’ve struggled so much replacing him.


Look I'm not for one second trying to suggest Fernandinho wasn't excellent for us.


And anyway, you're once again ignoring the vast majority of my reasoning either way. That's fine. At least I know that's your style now.
 
Not a chance
Great post mate, hats off to you
"Pep spoke about belief as of late, and it's concerning to hear but I believe it. We're timid. We don't press as well as often. Our defenders are perpetually uncertain of themselves, when they all have so much to offer"
This is why the lad for Portugal is (potentially) such a good signing - we need an input of his attitude (from what I read!)
 
At the risk of coming across like a fool, wouldn't it make more sense to wait until we've got our players back and fit and played a couple games more to overcome the lack of preseason before we decide that everything about the team is shit?



Unfortunately with discussion of Fernandinho and everyone else for that matter things take extremes. Either he's perfect or he's awful. Can't be anything in between. No levels. Flawless or useless. At the back end of 16/17 people were just starting to suggest Silva and De Bruyne might not have been up to it. How right they were!

As you've pointed out though, there's much more nuance to this. You're right pointing out about Fern/Gundogan in 2019, but what you can actually extend from this is the De Bruyne injuries that season. We won the league with 99 points ahead of THAT Liverpool side without our best player for most of the season.

What made that team so strong was the lack of need for one player. Admittedly Bernardo stepped up big time that season, but the point is that everyone was working so hard and was so 'on it' that the team carried its players, not the other way around. Every player in that team had somebody who could step in and not ruin the quality of the side. The only possible exceptions were Ederson and Silva, the latter of whom I do believe has caused us an issue with his departure (more so than anyone else has or could).

Pep spoke about belief as of late, and it's concerning to hear but I believe it. We're timid. We don't press as well as often. Our defenders are perpetually uncertain of themselves, when they all have so much to offer. I think what's happened during last season has crushed these players a bit mentally. Although it's not impossible to recover from things like that, thankfully. It was belief that forced us over the line in 18/19 and in 17/18 belief was often spoke about with how we ground out winners by playing the same way and not abandoning ourselves.

You stick Rodri in that 17-19 side instead of Fernandinho and things probably won't be much different. We might have been a bit better, maybe a bit worse (which in 18/19 admittedly could have been costly). But not much different. If you stick 16-17 Touré in there, the same. It doesn't mean Fernandinho wasn't super high quality, it just means he wasn't single-handedly holding the side together. We had the much maligned Mahrez ahead of Sané in 18/19 and it worked. We probably could have stuck Jesus ahead of Aguero and in those years we would have been fine (to be clear not saying we should have, Aguero worked excellently enough).
On that note, you stick Fabinho in our 19/20 team instead of Rodri, he'll have the same problems. At Liverpool all he has are runners, it's a different story at City. Fernandinho too, as much as people wouldn't believe it.


The big positive is that first half v Wolves. Fitness wasn't an issue, we had verve and belief and importantly, we had a front three of Jesus, Foden, and Sterling, and we had Stones and Aké at the back. The front 3 pressed like hounds. Stones and Aké are both really good at stepping up and nullifying attacks early on the halfway line with press. All that meant was we could physically bully them, particularly thanks to Rodri, Fernandinho, Walker, and even Mendy. Even though we suffer majorly through a lack of control high up without Silva, Jesus and Foden are excellent at linking up play and bringing De Bruyne into the game in dangerous areas.

If after the international break when we've got close to a clean slate of health, our players are fitter, and Torres is more settled, we're still conceded 5 every game, then yeah a discussion about the apocalypse might be necessary. But until then I think people should chill on downplaying absolutely everything to the most negative extremes, particularly about recruitment which as you said wasn't a problem when we were winning.

Much like 16/17 going into 17/18 (with mostly the same players), it just takes a spark.

“If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
...Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
 
Think some have had unrealistic expectations in a unique window due to Covid. In a Covid market I don't think we have done too bad with signings. We have adressed the CB issue and brought in a wide player. This will be a brilliant window if we get a LB in, good window if we don't. Addressing these areas and keeping net spend acceptable hopefully means we go big on a ST in the summer next year. £100+m big.
 
Think some have had unrealistic expectations in a unique window due to Covid. In a Covid market I don't think we have done too bad with signings. We have adressed the CB issue and brought in a wide player. This will be a brilliant window if we get a LB in, good window if we don't. Addressing these areas and keeping net spend acceptable hopefully means we go big on a ST in the summer next year. £100+m big.
LB is a priority and we have one of the hardest jobs in replacing Aguero. If we get those right, we'll do well. If not, I think we'll struggle. Just hope Cancelo performs well on the left and Aguero/Jesus have good seasons without much injury.
 
LB is a priority and we have one of the hardest jobs in replacing Aguero. If we get those right, we'll do well. If not, I think we'll struggle. Just hope Cancelo performs well on the left and Aguero/Jesus have good seasons without much injury.
Agreed and LB needs adressing now in all honesty as once again someone will be playing out of position to cover LB and it's not ideal. I think that If this is potentially Aguero's last season then he will want to go out with a bang and will be pretty hungry when back from Injury to give us a season to remember.
 
For this to be an excellent transfer window for us, we do need to bring in a striker. Even if it means one on loan. On the other hand there is a striker who for one or two seasons would cost us nothing apart from his wages, that would be Edison Cavani, as he is a free agent as his last contract at PSG has run its course. If we can get him on a two year contract that would allow us time to find another striker to take over from Sergio
 
For this to be an excellent transfer window for us, we do need to bring in a striker. Even if it means one on loan. On the other hand there is a striker who for one or two seasons would cost us nothing apart from his wages, that would be Edison Cavani, as he is a free agent as his last contract at PSG has run its course. If we can get him on a two year contract that would allow us time to find another striker to take over from Sergio
Bloody hell he’s got another brother n’all
 
LB is a priority and we have one of the hardest jobs in replacing Aguero. If we get those right, we'll do well. If not, I think we'll struggle. Just hope Cancelo performs well on the left and Aguero/Jesus have good seasons without much injury.
The whole balance of the team is affected by the left back problem. The better opposing teams exploit it in every match. Our centre backs are forced to cover the left flank leaving gaps in the middle. It has damaged us badly in the last two seasons (after Zinchenko got injured)
 
Funnily enough I’ve just listened to the latest Statsbomb podcast. They work for a lot of top clubs and help them with their recruitment via their analytical models.

Their opinion is that City used to be very good but in the last couple of years have let it slip and are relying too much on the subjectivity of TB rather than what is actually best for the team.

Their view was that Torres might turn out OK, Ake would not solve our defensive problems and Dias was a surprising choice given the analytics.

Overall they thought we had had a below average window.

I don’t necessarily agree with them and time will tell but it was interesting to get a specialist opinion from a company that usually praise City’s transfer decisions.

Liverpool isn’t one of their clubs but they said yet again their analytical department had bought well and were leaving other clubs behind.

It wasn’t all bad news though...United are terrible!
 
And sometimes an ugly duckling turns into a beautiful swan, just when you need it. Martin Demichelis says Hi.
 
Funnily enough I’ve just listened to the latest Statsbomb podcast. They work for a lot of top clubs and help them with their recruitment via their analytical models.

Their opinion is that City used to be very good but in the last couple of years have let it slip and are relying too much on the subjectivity of TB rather than what is actually best for the team.

Their view was that Torres might turn out OK, Ake would not solve our defensive problems and Dias was a surprising choice given the analytics.

Overall they thought we had had a below average window.

I don’t necessarily agree with them and time will tell but it was interesting to get a specialist opinion from a company that usually praise City’s transfer decisions.

Liverpool isn’t one of their clubs but they said yet again their analytical department had bought well and were leaving other clubs behind.

It wasn’t all bad news though...United are terrible!
What's TB?
 

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