Ref Watch

Why isn't it like rugby where you can hear the conversations going on and the logic behind a decision. Until it's like that it will continue to be manipulated for match fixing purposes. This 'clear and obvious' nonsense is just a smokescreen.
I think because even if they do mic them up it won't make a difference. They will invoke some rule like the "knee can be bent when tackling with studs up" that they apply to a city game but then never apply to any other team. Which is what we have already. I am not sure what that gives us because we already know its selective application of the rules depending on who is applying them.

So yeah would be nice the hear them but I don't think it's a fix. Accountability is the thing I think we need. It's a closed shop.

I also wonder if the TV deal contracts prevent the broadcasters from mentioning potential corruption /cheating/bias, meaning that when something is clearly wrong with a particular refs performance they (broadcasters) stay well clear of any accusations and insinuations.

I think that situation /scenario is ripe for manipulation without anyone being allowed to say anything (except twitter gossip which no one believes)

The refs and VAR teams need much more scrutiny, or even just some.
 
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The refs and VAR teams need much more scrutiny, or even just some.
I think half of them would quietly find they needed to spend 'more time with their family' if scrutiny ever appeared. I will not be satisfied until we see the footage on the big screens in the ground, hear every syllable of every word uttered between ref, linos, and the VAR operative. I also want the ref to attend a press conference post-match where decisions are highlighted and which law has been invoked to explain such decisions. And a supplementary question such as "How are the laws applied when Stones gets sent off for an identical 'tackle' to the one fielded by Mr. Whippy!" or "How do the laws explain the Ake pen but not the Jesus one! " Only then, when those whistling wanking bastards are sweating like stuffed pigs (It ain't called PiGMOL for marketing purposes!) will I consider the game isn't being manipulated. Also, I would like each ref, lino, fourth official, Mike Riley, all those in the VAR whelk stall on Skeggy beach, Carragher and Neville plugged into the mains for a second or two, so that they can focus on the true application of the LotG.
 
These past few games have totally exposed the way VAR is used and how referees are adapting to it.

It should be a system to double check and ensure the correct decisions are made, but increasingly it is being used to back up a referee's decision instead. The referree gives or does not give a decision hoping that VAR will help him, and then VAR just back up the referee more often than not. So, it does help the referee by coveirng his arse, at the expense of incorrect decisions, pulling the game into disrepute, changing match results and even encouraging player injuries.

Even that would be all fine, mostly, if the decisions reached were correct. I can accept I see things with blue tinted spec most of the time, but I can look at most other Premier League games where I have no vested interest, and see poor decisions not corrected by VAR. But recently we've had blatant contradictions in how the rules are interpreted agme to game, even decison to decision in the same game, and it needs explaination.

I have issue enough with VAR as a technology, mainly that it has become painfully apparent that it is unable to pinpoint the exact moments to use for offsides, creating yards of 'wiggle room' for the mysterious VAR operations room to play with, but even putting that aside the way humans are interpreting VAR's data is incosistent and wrong, and it is not a suprise that some teams and fans feel blatantly cheated. That puts into question the credibitity and professionalism of the officials and those behind the scenes, and VAR does not help itself by deliberatly making the process hidden and 'need to know only' basis. Which seems to include the TV broadcasters from what we hear the commentatos saying, yikes!

I'd love to see a nation-wise poll of fans now on VAR. Woudl you 1) Scrap it 2) Keep it or 3) Keep it but change how it is used?

I would be in 3 but only if the changes involved making the conversations of the officials audible real time to all. TV viewers, fans in the stadium, bench, players. Otherwise, just scrap it. I have zero trust in the officials who use teh technology... I mean, we've just seen a player sent off for a 50/50 challenge where the other player intitates the contact, and a player not sent off for an over the ball studs up challnge that injured his opponent, in the same game!

Now is the time for fans to ask questions of the officials. In just the past few games alone we have seen:

United given an offisde goal, arguing that Fernandes touched the ball on the way though depsite VAR showing no conclusive evidence of Fernandes touching the ball. Decision - Uphold referee's decision of goal. Inconsequential is the fact that Fernandes then reportedly denies in a post match interview that he did touch the ball at all.

Penalty not given in the Everton game despite it clearly hitting his hand. VAR shows movement of the hand towards the ball and definite contact, its nealry a full on punch! Decision - uphold referee's decision of no penalty.

Cancelo sent off for bringing down player though on goal. VAR shows Welbeck initiates contact and jumps into the air to get to the ball first so is not in control. Decision: uphold the referee's decision to send Cancelo off.

Brighton player only yellow carded for over the ball challenge on Gundogan, injuring the CIty player in the process. VAR shows challenge was over the ball and studs connect with Gundogan's shin and knee. Decision: uphold referree's original decision of just a yellow.

City denied penalty for challenge on Jesus. VAR shows the Brighton player catches Jesus and takes his ankle just after Jesus flicks the ball to his right to go around the challenge. Decision: uphold referee's decision of no penalty.

Ollie Wakins goes down for Villa undera challenge fomr Lloris. VAR sees that Lloris tocuhes Watkins but not the ball. Decision: uphold the referre's decision of no penalty.

Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Never have we had a situation where we are talking about 5+ contentious decisions for one round of fixtures, let alone one game. And the above clearly shows how VAR is being used incorrectly from a human point fo view, and thus not giving is the correct and fair deicsions.

If VAR thinks there is not enough to show a clear and obious error, then it does not do anything. But what consitituses a clear and obvious error is down to intepretation, and it does not take into consideration whether the referee's original decision has enough evidence to it to justify it even being given in the first place (i.e. the original problem!) If it is true that VAR cannot overrule the decision, and is merley the tool for the referee to use and decide whether he was correct, then you are asking the referee to admit he was wrong. I can impagine that in the mind of some this errodes any authority he has, but i'd argue not nearly as much as getting decisions so laughably wrong does.

I think I even saw the ref in our game blow for a Brighton foul when their keeper came out to catch the ball and fell over his own player?

Bloody fed up of VAR, and now with the way the referee's are 'adapting' to use VAR. It doesn't make the game more exciting, it doesn't correct the incorrect decisions and it makes celebrating a goal a hesitant affair rather than the outburst of joy and passion that it should be. I applaud Azaa for highlighting this in his social media posts, as highlighting this to the wider footballing community and joining our voices with others who are just a fed up is the only way things will get looked at.

Take it out behind the shed and put it out of its misery. And we shoudl be asking that Atwell never comes anywhere near a City game again in his career. His incompetence directly changes the result of a game and potentially means one of our best players misses a Champions League final. He's not getting decisions right, he's not protecting the players, he's not in control of a game, and seemingly he' not big enough to admit he has made several mistakes.
 
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Reilly to Mason. Sorry Lee you are not up to standard for refereeing Premiership matches but never mind you can have the cushy plum job of Director of VAR. We will need Kane or Haaland next season because we are going to get so many goals ruled out. We will need to score Four to get Two given.
 
A lot of the refereeing performances are down to mindset before they even get on the pitch.

We already know that they try and manage certain players.The suspicion is that they also attempt to manage "certain" teams,and occasions rather than just reffing the game as it unfolds.

It's also more than likely that refs get together to specifically discuss Var and how to back each other up.
Which,whilst understandable,also undermines its credibility.

Then at the top you have Mike "paragon of even-handed refereeing"Riley.
 
These past few games have totally exposed the way VAR is used and how referees are adapting to it.

It should be a system to double check and ensure the correct decisions are made, but increasingly it is being used to back up a referee's decision instead. The referree gives or does not give a decision hoping that VAR will help him, and then VAR just back up the referee more often than not. So, it does help the referee by coveirng his arse, at the expense of incorrect decisions, pulling the game into disrepute, changing match results and even encouraging player injuries.

Even that would be all fine, mostly, if the decisions reached were correct. I can accept I see things with blue tinted spec most of the time, but I can look at most other Premier League games where I have no vested interest, and see poor decisions not corrected by VAR. But recently we've had blatant contradictions in how the rules are interpreted agme to game, even decison to decision in the same game, and it needs explaination.

I have issue enough with VAR as a technology, mainly that it has become painfully apparent that it is unable to pinpoint the exact moments to use for offsides, creating yards of 'wiggle room' for the mysterious VAR operations room to play with, but even putting that aside the way humans are interpreting VAR's data is incosistent and wrong, and it is not a suprise that some teams and fans feel blatantly cheated. That puts into question the credibitity and professionalism of the officials and those behind the scenes, and VAR does not help itself by deliberatly making the process hidden and 'need to know only' basis. Which seems to include the TV broadcasters from what we hear the commentatos saying, yikes!

I'd love to see a nation-wise poll of fans now on VAR. Woudl you 1) Scrap it 2) Keep it or 3) Keep it but change how it is used?

I would be in 3 but only if the changes involved making the conversations of the officials audible real time to all. TV viewers, fans in the stadium, bench, players. Otherwise, just scrap it. I have zero trust in the officials who use teh technology... I mean, we've just seen a player sent off for a 50/50 challenge where the other player intitates the contact, and a player not sent off for an over the ball studs up challnge that injured his opponent, in the same game!

Now is the time for fans to ask questions of the officials. In just the past few games alone we have seen:

United given an offisde goal, arguing that Fernandes touched the ball on the way though depsite VAR showing no conclusive evidence of Fernandes touching the ball. Decision - Uphold referee's decision of goal. Inconsequential is the fact that Fernandes then reportedly denies in a post match interview that he did touch the ball at all.

Penalty not given in the Everton game despite it clearly hitting his hand. VAR shows movement of the hand towards the ball and definite contact, its nealry a full on punch! Decision - uphold referee's decision of no penalty.

Cancelo sent off for bringing down player though on goal. VAR shows Welbeck initiates contact and jumps into the air to get to the ball first so is not in control. Decision: uphold the referee's decision to send Cancelo off.

Brighton player only yellow carded for over the ball challenge on Gundogan, injuring the CIty player in the process. VAR shows challenge was over the ball and studs connect with Gundogan's shin and knee. Decision: uphold referree's original decision of just a yellow.

City denied penalty for challenge on Jesus. VAR shows the Brighton player catches Jesus and takes his ankle just after Jesus flicks the ball to his right to go around the challenge. Decision: uphold referee's decision of no penalty.

Ollie Wakins goes down for Villa undera challenge fomr Lloris. VAR sees that Lloris tocuhes Watkins but not the ball. Decision: uphold the referre's decision of no penalty.

Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Never have we had a situation where we are talking about 5+ contentious decisions for one round of fixtures, let alone one game. And the above clearly shows how VAR is being used incorrectly from a human point fo view, and thus not giving is the correct and fair deicsions.

If VAR thinks there is not enough to show a clear and obious error, then it does not do anything. But what consitituses a clear and obvious error is down to intepretation, and it does not take into consideration whether the referee's original decision has enough evidence to it to justify it even being given in the first place (i.e. the original problem!) If it is true that VAR cannot overrule the decision, and is merley the tool for the referee to use and decide whether he was correct, then you are asking the referee to admit he was wrong. I can impagine that in the mind of some this errodes any authority he has, but i'd argue not nearly as much as getting decisions so laughably wrong does.

I think I even saw the ref in our game blow for a Brighton foul when their keeper came out to catch the ball and fell over his own player?

Bloody fed up of VAR, and now with the way the referee's are 'adapting' to use VAR. It doesn't make the game more exciting, it doesn't correct the incorrect decisions and it makes celebrating a goal a hesitant affair rather than the outburst of joy and passion that it should be. I applaud Azaa for highlighting this in his social media posts, as highlighting this to the wider footballing community and joining our voices with others who are just a fed up is the only way things will get looked at.

Take it out behind the shed and put it out of its misery. And we shoudl be asking that Atwell never comes anywhere near a City game again in his career. His incompetence directly changes the result of a game and potentially means one of our best players misses a Champions League final. He's not getting decisions right, he's not protecting the players, he's not in control of a game, and seemingly he' not big enough to admit he has made several mistakes.
Fantastic post that.
If all the descisions had been against the Rags and Dippers the sad thing is we all know the outcome would be very very differant.
 
How can we possibly expect a referee and/or var official to apply fairness.?
All these officials have been promoted with Mr Riley as their boss to believe City are guilty as charged of FFP offences.

We were not wanted and are still resented by other Clubs, the FA and UEFA.

Please don't expect fairness from those who have been chosen as elite refs because they apply bias.

Their jobs depend on carrying out their bosses anti City wishes, a bit like expecting fairness from the media.
 
Referees have and always will make bad decisions, because they are in the wrong place, or are influenced by the crowd, players and their own preconceptions.

VAR is currently just supporting the ref. Those involved in VAR should be independent from the referees, to avoid the current collusion. Why not have foreign referees for VAR, and a reciprocal agreement for our refs to VAR their matches.
 

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