Ref Watch

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Any idea who is is the middle for the semi? I chose not to ask who the Whistling Wanker will be.

The Bottler! He will not be sending off any rough house Dippers, but there's a chance he will be looking to beat his record of penalties in one game, long before a pen shoot out!

 

[Burtonblue]

This thread should be entitled “All premiership referees are cunts”
I genuinely don’t think it matters who’s in the middle….they’re all fucking useless to a man.

 

[5 Hit Gibbon]

The officials were fucking shite yesterday. Not sure if corrupt or plain shit. Probably both!

Didn't give out yellow cards to their players and let they hacked our players, they should have been down to 9 if they had been booked when they should have.
No pen for Jesus.
Foul given on Mane when Foden scored. Player got the ball.
Sterlings goal (why on the freeze frame, when they draw the line, is the ball a foot from Kev's boot?)

 

[Ribble73]

Not sure if the Sky presenter (wasn’t the usual one) was having a cheeky dig at PGMOL, the PL, VAR but, when the idiot Warnock was creaming himself over the ‘success’ of the new thicker lines used for offside, he commented “and just saved the Premier League season”!!

I reckon Warnock was onto something - not over the thickness of the Line but with his “just saved the Premier League season” quote -I suspect similar was being said to Tierney in the VAR Booth from the powers that be to find some reason to disallow Raz’s Goal to keep the Title race close and the ££££ flowing in. In the Ground you just knew from the long delay it was going to be disallowed -and we’ve been there over and over again these past few years.

 

[SebastianBlue]

A quick review of why the VAR offside assessment implementation allows for manipulation in these tight attacking instances (which are very common for both us and Liverpool).

1. The VAR chooses the frame which will be used to determine offside.

It should be assessed at the point of contact by the passing player, but here it appears the VAR official chose to select a later frame where the ball is well off the passing player’s boot (footballs compress on contact and expand after contact; the expansion is magnified by the frame rate of the camera being used, elongating the image of the ball well beyond it’s actually shape in real life). A VAR official should have been trained to understand these videography related distortions.

2. The VAR places the vertical line on the frame that represents the attacker index position to be used by the camera distortion correction algorithm to project the 2D marker line on a 2D representation of a 3D space.

It is very easy to place the vertical index line slightly ahead or slightly behind the part of the attacking player’s body (that they can legally score with) closest to goal due to the resolution of video and having to interpret 3D space in a 2D image.

3. The VAR places the vertical line on the frame that represents the last non-goalkeeper defender index position to be used by the camera distortion correction algorithm to project the 2D marker line on a 2D representation of a 3D space.

Again, it is very easy to place the vertical index line slightly ahead or slightly behind the part of the defending player’s body (that they can legally defend with) closest to goal due to the resolution of video and having to interpret 3D space in a 2D image.

In addition, the nature of capturing complex movement in a 3D space with equipment designed to record 2D imagery means that the frames themselves can distort the relative distance of the players on the field and/or the point of contact with the ball (i.e. there may be no frame that actually captures the real point of contact, so the next best available must be used; there may be no frame that properly represents the positions of players without lense and timing distortion).

There is a margin of error in this system — every system like this has one. But the PL refuses to confirm what that margin of error is, nor do they even acknowledge it is factored in to the assessment.

All of these individual determinations mean there is significant variance between VAR offside assessments from incident-to-incident, and means there is broad leeway for manipulation of the outcomes of these assessments. There are ways to improve the accuracy of their assessments, especially in the context of the spirt of the game (favouring goal scoring, rather than defending) — such as using a wider line for the defender in proportion to the margin of error of the system (if the thinner attacker marker line is within or behind that line, the attacker is deemed onside) and/or simply using only feet to determine the markers for attacker and defender (as normally no great advantage is realise by leaning slightly forward with your shoulder in these situations, as was this case with this instance), but the PGMOL and PL seemingly refuse to entertain making those changes.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

This thread should be entitled “All premiership referees are cunts”
I genuinely don’t think it matters who’s in the middle….they’re all fucking useless to a man.

I don't know which is the better option - the ref we've got or the ref in the other semi!

 

[mat]

Mike Dean with his bookie contacts refereeing a game with a chairman owner of a bookies.

It could be our Wigan v Rags game.

 

[Burtonblue]

I don't know which is the better option - the ref we've got or the ref in the other semi!

As I said…no difference mate
They’re all cunts and hate our guts
Fuck em!

 

[Burtonblue]

A quick review of why the VAR offside assessment implementation allows for manipulation in these tight attacking instances (which are very common for both us and Liverpool).

1. The VAR chooses the frame which will be used to determine offside.

It should be assessed at the point of contact by the passing player, but here it appears the VAR official chose to select a later frame where the ball is well off the passing player’s boot (footballs compress on contact and expand after contact; the expansion is magnified by the frame rate of the camera being used, elongating the image of the ball well beyond it’s actually shape in real life). A VAR official should have been trained to understand these videography related distortions.

2. The VAR places the vertical line on the frame that represents the attacker index position to be used by the camera distortion correction algorithm to project the 2D marker line on a 2D representation of a 3D space.

It is very easy to place the vertical index line slightly ahead or slightly behind the part of the attacking player’s body (that they can legally score with) closest to goal due to the resolution of video and having to interpret 3D space in a 2D image.

3. The VAR places the vertical line on the frame that represents the last non-goalkeeper defender index position to be used by the camera distortion correction algorithm to project the 2D marker line on a 2D representation of a 3D space.

Again, it is very easy to place the vertical index line slightly ahead or slightly behind the part of the defending player’s body (that they can legally defend with) closest to goal due to the resolution of video and having to interpret 3D space in a 2D image.

In addition, the nature of capturing complex movement in a 3D space with equipment designed to record 2D imagery means that the frames themselves can distort the relative distance of the players on the field and/or the point of contact with the ball (i.e. there may be no frame that actually captures the real point of contact, so the next best available must be used; there may be no frame that properly represents the positions of players without lense and timing distortion).

There is a margin of error in this system — every system like this has one. But the PL refuses to confirm what that margin of error is, nor do they even acknowledge it is factored in to the assessment.

All of these individual determinations mean there is significant variance between VAR offside assessments from incident-to-incident, and means there is broad leeway for manipulation of the outcomes of these assessments. There are ways to improve the accuracy of their assessments, especially in the context of the spirt of the game (favouring goal scoring, rather than defending) — such as using a wider line for the defender in proportion to the margin of error of the system (if the thinner attacker marker line is within or behind that line, the attacker is deemed onside) and/or simply using only feet to determine the markers for attacker and defender (as normally no great advantage is realise by leaning slightly forward with your shoulder in these situations, as was this case with this instance), but the PGMOL and PL seemingly refuse to entertain making those changes.

Just an observation from that picture: if you were to make the blue line thicker than the red line (ie the opposite of the picture) would they not overlap??
Sadly I did not celebrate the goal when it happened as I just new VAR would take it away. We never get the benefit of the doubt in tight decisions like this.

 

[Baggins.mcfc]

Just an observation from that picture: if you were to make the blue line thicker than the red line (ie the opposite of the picture) would they not overlap??
Sadly I did not celebrate the goal when it happened as I just new VAR would take it away. We never get the benefit of the doubt in tight decisions like this.

This all day. I didn't celebrate our second goal either. I was only sure it was given when they kicked off again. Var killing the game for me.