Refugee crisis

[Prestwich_Blue]

I dont except your apology & dont want 1 anyway,if it was the other way round you would be screaming for a ban.
As for an agenda,i dont have an agenda,the reports were confusing & the reports jumped the gun.
He should not have put his family on that boat,his extended family in Canada was going to apply to get him & his family Canadian citizenship,he must have seen that doing what he was doing was at best stupid.

You still don't get it do you? He had zero chance of getting out of Turkey as he was effectively stateless. He had no passport because the Syrians wouldn't give them to Kurds. With no passport he couldn't get an exit visa and with no exit visa he couldn't get to Canada. Nor could he work or live in Turkey as a normal person. And it wasn't citizenship he was after, it was asylum. His brother had already been turned down for that very reason.

It's very easy to sit in your warm, safe, comfortable environment and criticise someone's actions. You have no idea what you would do in the same circumstances but the chances are, if you were that desperate, you'd do the same thing.

 

[mancityvstoke]

You still don't get it do you? He had zero chance of getting out of Turkey as he was effectively stateless. He had no passport because the Syrians wouldn't give them to Kurds. With no passport he couldn't get an exit visa and with no exit visa he couldn't get to Canada. Nor could he work or live in Turkey as a normal person. And it wasn't citizenship he was after, it was asylum. His brother had already been turned down for that very reason.

It's very easy to sit in your warm, safe, comfortable environment and criticise someone's actions. You have no idea what you would do in the same circumstances but the chances are, if you were that desperate, you'd do the same thing.

Yes and it was this that made me change my stance on this. I was questioning the pressure it would cause on services and whether we could afford it. I was wrong.

I would do the same as them and expect help to get away from war and murder.

 

[The Count Of Monte Cristo]

I dont except your apology & dont want 1 anyway,if it was the other way round you would be screaming for a ban.
As for an agenda,i dont have an agenda,the reports were confusing & the reports jumped the gun.
He should not have put his family on that boat,his extended family in Canada was going to apply to get him & his family Canadian citizenship,he must have seen that doing what he was doing was at best stupid.
You obviously think he was right,i'm sure in real life you wouldn't say to someones face what you have said on here so why bother.

Well I apologised anyway, I also added the bit about the confusion element in order to cut you and others who haven't seen the errors which have since been highlighted and corrected some slack.
Like @prestwichblue said, you could've just put your hands up (like I did with the apology) and admit you were wrong. From your response above it is clear that you still won't accept the truth surrounding this, even though you have just said: "his extended family in Canada was going to apply to get him & his family Canadian citizenship" (that doesn't mean they had), which is contrary to what you originally posted earlier about being offered asylum in Canada before he put his family on the boat.

I'm not even going to respond to this:

"i'm sure in real life you wouldn't say to someones face what you have said on here so why bother"

Other than

And the bit about the reports jumped the gun, yes you're right they did, I have said this on every post I've posted today.....but that was on Thursday, you posted your post on Saturday! And if (like me) you would have googled it today (the same day you posted), you would have soon realised the original reports were incorrect. The fact several posters have found and posted the corrected information today just proves what I'm saying.

 

[Monkfish]

I dont except your apology & dont want 1 anyway,if it was the other way round you would be screaming for a ban.
As for an agenda,i dont have an agenda,the reports were confusing & the reports jumped the gun.
He should not have put his family on that boat,his extended family in Canada was going to apply to get him & his family Canadian citizenship,he must have seen that doing what he was doing was at best stupid.
You obviously think he was right,i'm sure in real life you wouldn't say to someones face what you have said on here so why bother.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/03/us-europe-migrants-turkey-idUSKCN0R30Q820150903
Whats reported their was reported in all other media outlets,i suppose they have an agenda aswell do they.

I promise you that I would not be anywhere near as restrained in real life as I am being asked to be on here if I came across somebody with the views you have.

I'm not even allowed to call anyone a liar on here, though it does appear to be ok to say that a man was responsible for his families death

 

[Monkfish]

Well I apologised anyway

ay you did, and that probably makes you a bigger man than me as I would rather fry my bollocks in olive oil and eat them than do the same with 'those types'

 

[bluemanc]

You still don't get it do you? He had zero chance of getting out of Turkey as he was effectively stateless. He had no passport because the Syrians wouldn't give them to Kurds. With no passport he couldn't get an exit visa and with no exit visa he couldn't get to Canada. Nor could he work or live in Turkey as a normal person. And it wasn't citizenship he was after, it was asylum. His brother had already been turned down for that very reason.

It's very easy to sit in your warm, safe, comfortable environment and criticise someone's actions. You have no idea what you would do in the same circumstances but the chances are, if you were that desperate, you'd do the same thing.

Lets get 1 thing crystal clear,you have no idea what my situation is or what it has been.
I know about making choices & his was wrong.
Just because he had a brother turned down doesn't mean he would have been,what he did was not the last resort it was fucking stupid
I will tell you something,if i was him i wouldn't have survived & that IS from sitting in a nice comfy chair.

 

[bluemanc]

I promise you that I would not be anywhere near as restrained in real life as I am being asked to be on here if I came across somebody with the views you have.

I'm not even allowed to call anyone a liar on here, though it does appear to be ok to say that a man was responsible for his families death

You can call me anything you like,seriously,as for being restrained feel free to do what ever you want,seriously i mean whatever you want.
I do not and never will back down from something like you.

 

[The Count Of Monte Cristo]

ay you did, and that probably makes you a bigger man than me as I would rather fry my bollocks in olive oil and eat them than do the same with 'those types'

I apologised for my conduct on the forum rather than what I said - I totally stand by what I've said... Just maybe not in the manner I delivered it, as the forum doesn't permit this and to be honest, you lose the point if things become unnecessarily aggressive. Even though it's difficult not to get angry when you see people posting comments calling the poor bloke stupid and stating he turned down safe passage to Canada.

How are the fried bollocks in olive oil?

 

[kalouk]

Wales. Perfect destination for a small minded bigot. The place is full of them.

But be careful when you open your mouth. They don't like foreigners coming into their country.

I know this thread is about a bigger issue but I feel this post is untrue and uncalled for. I am Welsh and Tiger Bay is proof that the Welsh have as proud a history of racial harmony as anywhere else. At one point 57 different nationalities lived side by side peacefully. I am not saying that everywhere is perfect but what countries are. I have agreed with your stance throughout this thread but this was low. I have students calling Tuesday to collect items to take to Calais and these groups of volunteers are working all over Wales at their own cost. Wales is stepping up and doing what it can the same as everywhere else in Britain.

 

[Monkfish]

You can call me anything you like,seriously,as for being restrained feel free to do what ever you want,seriously i mean whatever you want.
I do not and never will back down from something like you.

I can see that. You have been repeatedly shown to be incorrect on this very thread, but indeed your not for turning. In fact you finally managed to get Google working to find evidence to backup your wrong opinion, obviously you didn't find it but ending up on a Canadian newspaper reporting on a politician desperately fighting to save his career as your story shows what would be an admirable tenacity, if that tenacity was not in the direction of such a fucked up agenda.

You must have had to go through 100's of news stories pointing out your error, you kept going. I would have slinked off feeling slightly embarrassed but not you - well done - your like minded pals must be proud

 

[Chancy Termites]

The thing is though Islam is fragmented so it doesn't mean a Muslim will help another Muslim.Sectarianism plays a huge part in the conflicts.
Put Iran & Russia in the Syrian mess & it doesnt take a large iq to see the shit is going to hit the fan.
"Russian soldiers and armoured vehicles fighting alongside pro-Assad troops",thats happening now & Putin is increasing Russia's presence.
SO if Russia are increasing support for President Bashar al-Assad of Syria & the West wants him out the situation is going to get worse,a lot worse.

So couldn't the Arab states take Christian refugees from Iraq and Syria, if the Muslim ones are too problematic for them?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Lets get 1 thing crystal clear,you have no idea what my situation is or what it has been.
I know about making choices & his was wrong. Just because he had a brother turned down doesn't mean he would have been,what he did was not the last resort it was fucking stupid.

I know nothing about you but I assume you're not a stateless refugee with little hope of getting somewhere that would actually welcome you and give you some hope for a future and nor have you ever been. Yes he would have been turned down because he had no passport and wouldn't have got an exit visa without one. His choice may well have been stupid to you but to him it seemed like a chance to break the deadlock. I suspect that's a choice you've never had to make.

You just aren't taking in what people are telling you, you don't seem to be able to read and process information and I'm finding you a tiresome bore to be honest.

 

[aguero93:20]

Don't worry Pal, PB is a well known bigot and would probably herd all the Welsh into Chapels and burn them down.

Sure wouldn't we all :) replace them with Syrians.

 

[bluemanc]

I know nothing about you but I assume you're not a stateless refugee with little hope of getting somewhere that would actually welcome you and give you some hope for a future and nor have you ever been. Yes he would have been turned down because he had no passport and wouldn't have got an exit visa without one. His choice may well have been stupid to you but to him it seemed like a chance to break the deadlock. I suspect that's a choice you've never had to make.

You just aren't taking in what people are telling you, you don't seem to be able to read and process information and I'm finding you a tiresome bore to be honest.

Sorry i didn't make myself clear,i dont care what what you suspect or what you think,you don't know me & we will never meet.
The other "people"TELLING me something is fine,they can & have said what they want,i wont because we both know what will happen.
You & they believe he had no choice,i don't,thats the end of it & i hope the end of any dialogue between us on any subject.
You & they believe he had no choice,i don't,thats the end of it,sorry to repeat myself but it seems you have issues.
Good Luck with your thread.NFT.

 

[Ducado]

So couldn't the Arab states take Christian refugees from Iraq and Syria, if the Muslim ones are too problematic for them?

They could but many of the Christian refugees end up out of the middle east there are huge Christian Arab populations in the US ,Australia and Europe so I don't beleive it is too much of a problem for them

 

[hgblue]

That photo is harrowing.

The whole refugee crisis is a tragic situation, and our government's response so far has been disgraceful.

Yep. I understand that there's a debate to be had about the level of immigration into this country and that some people think it is too high. That's a perfectly reasonable debate to be had. However, we're talking about people here who have nothing, women and children who are homeless and destitute. We should have people out there in these camps assessing those who are in greatest need, and bringing as many as possible to this country as an act of basic human decency, and instead of pissing and moaning about the numbers we should be welcoming these people with open arms. There's an opportunity here for us to use our relative wealth for a greater good and for our country to lead a worldwide response to a tragic situation, and maybe if we were to do this, some innocent lives will be saved. Surely a good use of tax payers money?

 

[The Count Of Monte Cristo]

What does 'NFT' mean?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

What does 'NFT' mean?

It means "I've lost the argument and made myself look a bit of a fool so I'd better get out before I dig an even bigger hole for myself".

 

[kas_tippler]

I see the milk of human kindness is freely following on here, just think if you were in that situation with your family. Hang your heads in shame

 

[Yaya_Tony]

Yep. I understand that there's a debate to be had about the level of immigration into this country and that some people think it is too high. That's a perfectly reasonable debate to be had. However, we're talking about people here who have nothing, women and children who are homeless and destitute. We should have people out there in these camps assessing those who are in greatest need, and bringing as many as possible to this country as an act of basic human decency, and instead of pissing and moaning about the numbers we should be welcoming these people with open arms. There's an opportunity here for us to use our relative wealth for a greater good and for our country to lead a worldwide response to a tragic situation, and maybe if we were to do this, some innocent lives will be saved. Surely a good use of tax payers money?

Very well said imho mate.