Relaxation of FFP rules due to Covid-19

[Vienna_70]

I’m not certain that’s 100% the case there. When you look at clubs like Portsmouth, Bolton and Sunderland for example, they’re just your average teams who had owners come in and spend money like it was going out of fashion but ultimately saw them nearly all going to the wall. Of course it doesn’t mean that everyone’s financial husbandry is as bad and of course there are wealthy club owners who are much more sensible, but for every good one, there are a lot more bad ones who have no interest in their club other than pound signs with little to no regard for any potential fall out. The fact is though that FFP benefits and hinders all teams in different ways. Yes, the likes of the top six may benefit from no more sugar daddies from below, but the teams around them now are stronger on and off the field than they’ve ever been. That’s an enormous challenge in itself, never mind worrying about someone doing a Leicester and winning it from nowhere. There’ll always be anomalies and glitches here and there, but if it means the consistent financial preservation of clubs all around the country, then in principle it should be a good thing. The biggest issue is the way that all clubs are doing their best to circumvent it, both of ours included. I appreciate it’s the nature of elite level clubs to eke an advantage where they can, but they’re of a mindset that says ‘Well, we’ve got the resources so why shouldn’t we use them?’ That collective thinking across the top shelf is the biggest problem in my book.

Did your lot's efforts in trying to circumvent the FFP rules include hacking our database?

 

[Greggery Peccary]

The ref at Madrid was the first fair ref we've had in any big CL game, that's no bullshit.

Well, the acid test will be in the return leg. But I’ll give you a preview now, you’ll do them everywhere in the return leg fair and square too. It’s on the same principle that we beat Barça in the CL semis. The fact is that we play far more high tempo, high intensity games in England than they do in Spain. They play some obviously, but the PL is far more physically intense over a longer period. When you take that and the sort of football us two are playing at the moment, it’s nigh on unstoppable. Messi said after the first leg in the changies, ‘How have we won 3-0 and we’re the exhausted ones? We can’t let them do that to us again.’ And that’s what we did. That’s what you did to Madrid in the first leg and you’ll do it again in the home leg. You might think I’m on the wind up but I’m genuinely not. I’ll bet you anything that’s what happens.

 

[Vienna_70]

But if they’d had FFP in place then it wouldn’t have been allowed to get that far if you get me. The money they were spending was nowhere near commensurate with their turnovers. The safeguards in place now mean it’s unlikely to ever happen again. That’s surely a good thing?
I’m not so sure that it stifles competition though, the top six for example has fluctuated a lot in the last ten years or so. Ten years ago, it was unthinkable that United wouldn’t qualify for the CL and look at now. My point is that there are a number of other factors that affect the standing of the club, not necessarily just finance. On investment, clubs can buy who they like as long as it’s within their means. If their means aren’t big enough then invest there to give yourself a platform. Build, say, a state of the art academy that produces players that sell for big money. It’s not as straightforward as that, granted, but it’s a route to the market you want to be in.
I couldn’t agree with the last point any more. And as I’ve said, it’s the MO of all the top teams. Their greed knows no bounds whatsoever.

Do we really have to spell it out to you?

The reason the rags are struggling to make the top four is because we were able to invest in our squad, and therefore break up your cosy cartel.

If FFPR were in place when Sheikh Mansour bought us, we would never have been able to but the players we have, and therefore Agüeroooooooooo wouldn’t have happened.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

The G14 clubs were founded by those who had been historically most successful in Europe. As of today, not much has changed. Nearly all of them have won a European trophy since its inception, some with multiples. That reinforces their membership credentials totally. I’m not sure where I’ve said that as long as LFC are okay, fuck all other teams? Of course my primary concern is my own team just like yours is, but let’s have this right, given that you’ve spent more money than any other club in the last decade, your spending power has hardly been curtailed that much. Personally I couldn’t give two fucks what you spend or don’t spend. We’ve gone about it a different way, it’s horses for courses. What I don’t understand is that a lot of your fans seem to hate this ‘cabal’ but are desperate for them to accept your club. That’s by the by though.

Only because there is no other way ffs - how hard is it to comprehend ?

If you have ambitions to win the CL which our owners do , you have to be able to participate. Stop trying to be a smartarse when you know exactly what the problem is and IF the positions were reversed and you were being frustrated in a similar manner you would be making the same noises.

I repeat that you are a hypocrite, smug because you are one of the cabal. Even Sounness one of your ex players has highlighted and identified the situation.

You say you are not a wum , but you make a thinly veiled effort to disprove it , and your posts on this subject demonstrate that quite clearly.

Obviously Ric permits you to post but you really push the limits.

 

[Greggery Peccary]

Milan has one of the biggest trophy haul but they failed to capitalize on their success and develop the brand. Coupled with the Serie A decline (average TV rights), Milan is nothing but a name nowadays. Of course, they had their influence in FFP being relaxed for new owners (just after City and PSG were punished for the same thing haha) but they are now in the muds with FFP slowing their comeback. Inter played smarter and even them had a tough time under FFP. They could only do some loans with option to buy (that they wouldn't use) under their FFP agreement. And this is with Suning giving them a good help and selling their academy players for a fortune.

I don't usually take PL clubs as an example to show off the good outcome of FFP due to the anomaly of their TV rights. When the bottom clubs are winning more money from their TV rights than the champions of every other leagues bar Real/Barça and maybe Bayern, you cannot use it as a model. The model is what is happening in the other leagues with one big club monopilising the league : Bayern 8 in a row, Juventus 8 (soon 9) in a row, PSG would have been the same story if the now defunct Monaco didn't manage to get one before getting killed by FFP.

However, let's talk about Spurs. While they did almost everything right, everything perfect, what did they achieve exactly ? No PL title, they got into the UCL finals like a Monaco (1 year fluke), got ousted by RB Leipzig just after the groups the following year, no domestic cup title and now they are in a really bad position to hope to get into the UCL spots. The biggest success of Tottenham while overachieving is building their stadium and it would have been possible outside of FFP.

I guess Juventus Turin would be the most accurate club to define success under FFP. No PL money, they were in Serie B a decade ago, they built a dynasty in Italy, they did 2 CL finals, they did some power moves with Cristiano Ronaldo and de Ligt, they built a stadium.
Atletico Madrid too. Winning a league against the duopoly and being a regular in the late stages of CL.
Tuchel doesn't have a big fanbase among PSG fans. Not only did he manage to lose the domestic cups but PSG didn't really improve in CL, PSG had a serie of defeats at the end of last season with a record of conceded goals (meaning the coach cannot motivate its players anymore). And his ideas of recruitment are all terrible. Terrible ! You should always do the contrary of what Tuchel is asking if you want to be right (or at least not wrong). As it stands, Tuchel has not done anything beneficial for PSG. We rely on Neymar and Mbappé doing some magic. Other than that, it is poor, very poor. The only good thing i see about him is the fact he is giving youth quite a lot of playing time. And even then, it is useless since those bastards aren't even repaying his trust by signing contracts with us.
Edit : you wanted to know about the development of players. Neymar has developed as a complete playmaker but i wouldn't say it is due to Tuchel but because of the fact he is allowed to go into the middle of the field ala Messi. He was always an elite footballer. Mbappé has developed physically and he takes more responsaibilities in the attacking play but it is due to him growing as a man and having more experience. He is still lacking in areas like the long range shoot, the headers, his back to the goal play. His recruits like Kehrer or Diallo are either injured or not reliable enough. Kimpembé had an horrendous post World Cup year and is still unreliable. And the youth players are not sticking long enough with us to say more. His only success is making Marquinhos hold the midfield due to the fact the other options were/are miserable.

Tuchel won't be missed.

Thanks for the detailed reply on PSG, that’s a great insight. I think you’re right in that elite level players will naturally get better, but I was interested to hear how much influence the manager was perceived to have had. I’m not going to lie, I’d love to see what Klopp could do with Mbappé, but I acknowledge it’s not a likely deal...haha!

 

[Greggery Peccary]

Do we really have to spell it out to you?

The reason the rags are struggling to make the top four is because we were able to invest in our squad, and therefore break up your cosy cartel.

If FFPR were in place when Sheikh Mansour bought us, we would never have been able to but the players we have, and therefore Agüeroooooooooo wouldn’t have happened.

The reason United are struggling has nothing to do with you or us. It’s because the club is a mess from top to bottom. They’ve not recruited well in senior positions for some time. That’s it’s coincided with your rise is irrelevant, you could apply the same logic to us over the last few years or so. And we had to fight our way back into the top four and ultimately top spots like everybody else.
As for the last paragraph, it’s impossible to say that. Who knows what would have happened? As I’ve said on this thread, building a great team isn’t all about money. It helps a lot, but it’s not enough on its own. That’s a fact.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Well, the acid test will be in the return leg. But I’ll give you a preview now, you’ll do them everywhere in the return leg fair and square too. It’s on the same principle that we beat Barça in the CL semis. The fact is that we play far more high tempo, high intensity games in England than they do in Spain. They play some obviously, but the PL is far more physically intense over a longer period. When you take that and the sort of football us two are playing at the moment, it’s nigh on unstoppable. Messi said after the first leg in the changies, ‘How have we won 3-0 and we’re the exhausted ones? We can’t let them do that to us again.’ And that’s what we did. That’s what you did to Madrid in the first leg and you’ll do it again in the home leg. You might think I’m on the wind up but I’m genuinely not. I’ll bet you anything that’s what happens.

Don't want to go ot, but I think the heat will play a big part in the rest of the comp, August in Portugal. City keep the ball as well as any team, so in theory should suit us if we can get past RM.

 

[Greggery Peccary]

Only because there is no other way ffs - how hard is it to comprehend ?

If you have ambitions to win the CL which our owners do , you have to be able to participate. Stop trying to be a smartarse when you know exactly what the problem is and IF the positions were reversed and you were being frustrated in a similar manner you would be making the same noises.

I repeat that you are a hy smug because you are one of the cabal. Even Sounness one of your ex players has highlighted and identified the situation.

You say you are not a wum , but you make a thinly veiled effort to disprove it , and your posts on this subject demonstrate that quite clearly.

Obviously Ric permits you to post but you really push the limits.

I’m genuinely lost here. You’re saying or inferring that you’re not being allowed to participate but I can’t understand why? You’ve got probably pound for pound the best squad in the world, you’ve just beaten Real in the QF 1st leg and will do them again in the second leg most likely. Whatever’s going on off the field and remains up in the air, but it hasn’t stopped you being competitive in the market in the FFP era and being extremely successful on the pitch. I’ll repeat again, I’m not winding anyone up and if I’m missing something, I’m all ears to be told otherwise.

 

[Vienna_70]

danielwood5
I was always under the impression that FFP was initially brought to stop Chelsea or clubs like Chelsea from doing what they were doing. FFP was supposed to be like an European DNCG (the french financial policeman in football). DNCG allows you to spend whatever you want as long as the owner can provide assurance he is backing up the spending.
My understanding is Chelsea made their transition from big spenders to footballers farm (to sustain their lifestyle) and voted in favour of the current version of FFP we know. It would secure their place among the top clubs in PL after they had accomplished their goal of winning the CL and expanding their brand through their initial investment.

Maybe you are right and i'm mistaken.

I think it stemmed from Platini watching the CL final between Chelsea and the rags; two clubs that were hugely in debt at the time, and he thought, this isn’t right.

Because of this, he tried to introduce rules to limit debt, but these rules were hi jacked by the G14 clubs to limit investment, so that clubs like City and PSG (and any others in the future) wouldn’t be in a position to upset the cartel clubs ever again.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Do we really have to spell it out to you?

The reason the rags are struggling to make the top four is because we were able to invest in our squad, and therefore break up your cosy cartel.

If FFPR were in place when Sheikh Mansour bought us, we would never have been able to but the players we have, and therefore Agüeroooooooooo wouldn’t have happened.

Wasting your time.