Relaxation of FFP rules due to Covid-19

[stonerblue]

Or...£29m
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Firmino

It’s not really that important to be fair. Roll yourself a melter and let’s enjoy Sunday.

Done already GP and certainly will. A feast of footy on today

 

[stonerblue]

How many of those teams, with mainly CL money chugging through the coffers, are doing well now? The reason United, Arsenal and Spurs, Chelsea etc aren’t up on their haunches is because football is cyclical in nature. That’s how it works at the top end - just having money isn’t enough. You’re one of the richest clubs on the planet but it’s the footballing people you appoint that make the difference. The Man City of 2014 wouldn’t get near the Guardiola team, nowhere near. And Leicester and others have proved you don’t always have to spend big money. Klopp’s £300m net in five years or so backs that up. That doesn’t invalidate what you’ve achieved, far from it, but it clearly proves there are many ways to break up those on top.

Relatively, Leicester spent big just to get to the prem' after being bought by whatsisname.

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

You talk about that period in the 2000s like it was rigged towards those clubs. The fact is that all of the clubs mentioned either won the CL, were on a final or a combination of both. And due to the cyclical nature of European football, it was England’s turn in the big yellow thing in the sky. Much like it is now. Like then, all the current CL teams are killing Europe at the moment, nobody wants to draw the English.
Again, I don’t really have a problem with you spending money per se. It’s part of the modern game whether we like it or not. But let’s not pretend that yours and PSG’s spending hasn’t remodelled the transfer markets here and abroad. You personally have spent more money than any club on this planet in the last decade, that’s a fact. Again, there’s nothing wrong with that but don’t say that it’s the ONLY way that you were able to catch up. That’s certainly not true.

Genuinely curious. You seem like a level-headed Liverpool poster, so one that's worth arguing with (it's not a common occurrence on this forum, believe you me, and no, I'm not being patronising).
Genuinely curious, as I say: when you're starting from where we were starting from, how exactly would we have caught up otherwise? We had good, even excellent, support, but it didn't weigh in the financial balance by the noughties. Whenever I meet a Tottenham fan (especially Tottenham fans), they sneer at me as soon as I say that I'm a City supporter — it matters not a jot to them that I've been a supporter for more than fifty years, and supported us in the third division (of course, nothing special about that, although no, I was NOT at York Away) — and say that they do it the ‘right way’ and we do it the ‘wrong way’. To which the obvious answer is ‘Carrying on doing the right way, mate, and may your trophy cabinet long remain empty’. To adapt a phrase from Simon Curtis, carry on occupying the moral high ground of continuous failure. Their best home-grown player by a country mile will be on his way by the end of next season, at the outside, if their trophy cabinet is still empty. It's an open secret. Arguably the best product ever of Everton's youth scheme emerged and was immediately cherry-picked by the Great White Shark that was Manchester United. The rest is history. Shaun Wright-Phillips (who didn't in fact come up through our youth teams, but who we think of as one of our own) was cherry picked by Chelsea when they were ruling the roost in the mid noughties. That's the way it is ! That's the way of the world, in these days of megabucks through worldwide satellite television rights. The match going supporter is now secondary, except to make a bit of noise (and even then, he/she is drowned out by a deafening PA system half the time), and to fête players over by the corner flag when they've just scored a screamer. It's horrible to say, as a match going fan, but that's how it is. Leicester is the once-in-a-lifetime-sighted unicorn. My point is that we didn't invent this modern form of the game. We merely joined it, courtesy of an admittedly huge injection of cash. There simply is no other way. And I refuse to apologise for it. If a player like Phil Foden had emerged in our team even fifteen years ago, he would have been on his way after a couple of seasons making a name for himself with us, and frankly, I wouldn't have blamed him. The days when the likes of Ipswich in the seventies or, further back, Burnley in the sixties, could mount a genuine challenge to be champions are long gone. The grooming of brilliant youth team players only works at clubs that are already huge.
By the way, no, we can't just get who we like, any more than you can. Bayern can do it in their league, Real and Barca can do it in theirs, PSG can do it in theirs. To a fair extent, Juventus can do it in theirs. As I mentioned in a previous post, five clubs have now been champions in England over well under a decade. Name me another major league in which that is the case. That tells you everything you need to know about the terrifying prospect of City simply hoovering everything up.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

You talk about that period in the 2000s like it was rigged towards those clubs. The fact is that all of the clubs mentioned either won the CL, were on a final or a combination of both. And due to the cyclical nature of European football, it was England’s turn in the big yellow thing in the sky. Much like it is now. Like then, all the current CL teams are killing Europe at the moment, nobody wants to draw the English.
Again, I don’t really have a problem with you spending money per se. It’s part of the modern game whether we like it or not. But let’s not pretend that yours and PSG’s spending hasn’t remodelled the transfer markets here and abroad. You personally have spent more money than any club on this planet in the last decade, that’s a fact. Again, there’s nothing wrong with that but don’t say that it’s the ONLY way that you were able to catch up. That’s certainly not true.

The more you qualify for the champions league the more money you get which can be invested back into the playing operation to ensure you stay there. How does a team from outside of the top four break that? I can only think of Newcastle, Leeds, Everton and Spurs who had a look in on the champions league between 2000 to 2010 and non of them qualified more than 2 seasons at most.

Can you give me an example of a club in the last 30 years of English football that hasn’t had sustained success without out some form of outside investment?

And on City remodelling the transfer market? You lot were doing it long before Mansour rocked up, how much would the likes of Phil Babb and Stan Collymore would have been if you factor in inflation of the market? Liverpool have paid stupid money for players in the premier league era and never seen a return on it since now. We haven’t paid Van Dyjk money for a centre half and I’m sure Ederson didn’t cost as much as Allison. We have limits that’s why Alexi Sanchez is on half a million quid a week doing nothing at United.

 

[stonerblue]

You've tripped over the exchange rate confusion which is what de Bruyne is quoted at 70m by idiots.

Transfermarkt has the euro value as it's base.
29.6m pounds at the the time was worth approx 40m euro (actual value is not important). As the exchange rate is now worse, that 40m euros is now 36.9m pounds.

If quoted in euros, the figure would be unchanged.

So they report it as £'s and then adjust it over time depending on the exchange rate of the euro? Seems a bit pointless, and like you say, confusing.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

That £250m was given to us as a part interest loan when the deal was completed. That has long since been paid back, the info is in the company accounts. Again, to reiterate, I don’t see them as some kind of benevolent guardian who sees us as their ward. They, like all owners, are dirty, grubby little parasites who are only interested in what’s in it for them. None of them give a shit about the fans, a few cursory gestures will satisfy the masses for the most part.

No it hasn't been paid back. It's still in UKSV's accounts. Your total financial debt was £260m in the last accounts, a £50m bank loan and £210m as an inter-company loan from FSG. If I remember rightly, they also converted some debt to equity.

 

[stonerblue]

Genuinely curious. You seem like a level-headed Liverpool poster, so one that's worth arguing with (it's not a common occurrence on this forum, believe you me, and no, I'm not being patronising).
Genuinely curious, as I say: when you're starting from where we were starting from, how exactly would we have caught up otherwise? We had good, even excellent, support, but it didn't weigh in the financial balance by the noughties. Whenever I meet a Tottenham fan (especially Tottenham fans), they sneer at me as soon as I say that I'm a City supporter — it matters not a jot to them that I've been a supporter for more than fifty years, and supported us in the third division (of course, nothing special about that, although no, I was NOT at York Away) — and say that they do it the ‘right way’ and we do it the ‘wrong way’. To which the obvious answer is ‘Carrying on doing the right way, mate, and may your trophy cabinet long remain empty’. To adapt a phrase from Simon Curtis, carry on occupying the moral high ground of continuous failure. Their best home-grown player by a country mile will be on his way by the end of next season, at the outside, if their trophy cabinet is still empty. It's an open secret. Arguably the best product ever of Everton's youth scheme emerged and was immediately cherry-picked by the Great White Shark that was Manchester United. The rest is history. Shaun Wright-Phillips (who didn't in fact come up through our youth teams, but who we think of as one of our own) was cherry picked by Chelsea when they were ruling the roost in the mid noughties. That's the way it is ! That's the way of the world, in these days of megabucks through worldwide satellite television rights. The match going supporter is now secondary, except to make a bit of noise (and even then, he/she is drowned out by a deafening PA system half the time), and to fête players over by the corner flag when they've just scored a screamer. It's horrible to say, as a match going fan, but that's how it is. Leicester is the once-in-a-lifetime-sighted unicorn. My point is that we didn't invent this modern form of the game. We merely joined it, courtesy of an admittedly huge injection of cash. There simply is no other way. And I refuse to apologise for it. If a player like Phil Foden had emerged in our team even fifteen years ago, he would have been on his way after a couple of seasons making a name for himself with us, and frankly, I wouldn't have blamed him. The days when the likes of Ipswich in the seventies or, further back, Burnley in the sixties, could mount a genuine challenge to be champions are long gone. The grooming of brilliant youth team players only works at clubs that are already huge.
By the way, no, we can't just get who we like, any more than you can. Bayern can do it in their league, Real and Barca can do it in theirs, PSG can do it in theirs. To a fair extent, Juventus can do it in theirs. As I mentioned in a previous post, five clubs have now been champions in England over well under a decade. Name me another major league in which that is the case. That tells you everything you need to know about the terrifying prospect of City simply hoovering everything up.

Great post

 

[Greggery Peccary]

Done already GP and certainly will. A feast of footy on today

Is right, mate, got a lovely Cali for this afternoon’s proceedings. And footy too, what more can you ask for? Happy days.

 

[Greggery Peccary]

No it hasn't been paid back. It's still in UKSV's accounts. Your total financial debt was £260m in the last accounts, a £50m bank loan and £210m as an inter-company loan from FSG. If I remember rightly, they also converted some debt to equity.

Well, if it is, it’s some kind of secondary loan as the original was paid back almost immediately relatively speaking. My mate worked on it within the club, that’s how I know the first one. As for anything else, I’m really not sure.

 

[stonerblue]

Is right, mate, got a lovely Cali for this afternoon’s proceedings. And footy too, what more can you ask for? Happy days.

fruity little haze for me with a couple of beers. In fact i'm off to see grandkids in a minute and taking son in law a bottle of estrella so he can toast the scousers title win. Only one bottle though...