Relaxation of FFP rules due to Covid-19

[neel]

Time to get Messi and mbappe

 

[hcblue95]

You talk about that period in the 2000s like it was rigged towards those clubs. The fact is that all of the clubs mentioned either won the CL, were on a final or a combination of both. And due to the cyclical nature of European football, it was England’s turn in the big yellow thing in the sky. Much like it is now. Like then, all the current CL teams are killing Europe at the moment, nobody wants to draw the English.
Again, I don’t really have a problem with you spending money per se. It’s part of the modern game whether we like it or not. But let’s not pretend that yours and PSG’s spending hasn’t remodelled the transfer markets here and abroad. You personally have spent more money than any club on this planet in the last decade, that’s a fact. Again, there’s nothing wrong with that but don’t say that it’s the ONLY way that you were able to catch up. That’s certainly not true.

You talk about city remodeling the transfer market. Did you know that, adjusted for football inflation, Liverpool have spent more money in the Premier league era than any club other than Chelsea? Yet this is the first year you have won it. So you were the second highest premier league spenders and you didn't win it for 30 years. City's spending is more obvious than liverpools for two reasons, the recency of it and the numbers are higher now than in the past.

You have spunked money for 30 years and have woefully under achieved. City spent a lot of money since 2008, but adjusting for inflation you have spent more. This is despite the fact you were the top team 30 years ago and we had been run into the ground, so you have to consider the starting positions and the huge advantage you and the other big five gave yourselves at the expense of other clubs by greedily forming the Premier league.

Just wondering if you knew that adjusted for inflation you have spent more than city in the last 30 years and if this changes your view on city's spending?

 

[waspish]

Well 5 billions spent in thirty Years to win the title not bad really.

 

[Greggery Peccary]

The more you qualify for the champions league the more money you get which can be invested back into the playing operation to ensure you stay there. How does a team from outside of the top four break that? I can only think of Newcastle, Leeds, Everton and Spurs who had a look in on the champions league between 2000 to 2010 and non of them qualified more than 2 seasons at most.

Can you give me an example of a club in the last 30 years of English football that hasn’t had sustained success without out some form of outside investment?

And on City remodelling the transfer market? You lot were doing it long before Mansour rocked up, how much would the likes of Phil Babb and Stan Collymore would have been if you factor in inflation of the market? Liverpool have paid stupid money for players in the premier league era and never seen a return on it since now. We haven’t paid Van Dyjk money for a centre half and I’m sure Ederson didn’t cost as much as Allison. We have limits that’s why Alexi Sanchez is on half a million quid a week doing nothing at United.

The thirty year period that you’re alluding to also covers the single biggest and consistent explosions of mega money into the game. All the top teams have benefitted from that. With that have come investors with deep pockets. The two have gone hand in hand so creating something out of nothing would always be an anomaly, successful or not. And you have to be successful, comparatively speaking, in your own league to get your hands on CL money. That takes more than money, a lot more.
Re the transfer market, we may have broken the British record a few times but we weren’t always in the black in that period. We sold Rush to Juventus for the money, that’s a fact if you didn’t know that. Yes, we’ve paid some decent fees, that’s perfectly normal for top clubs.We also, if I’m honest, slightly skewed the centre half market with the purchase of Van Dijk. People said at the time it would correct itself as he was never going to be able to justify that fee. That obviously didn’t work out and still it remains. It was similar with the goalie although Kepa’s inconsistency at Chelsea may see those figures drop. But you have the most expensively assembled squad in the world, that’s true. Not the highest wage bill, let me be clear, but the squad definitely. Let’s just take the first team defence;
Ederson -£35m
Walker - £50m
Stones - £50m
Laporte - £57m
Mendy - £52m

That’s nearly a quarter of a billion on the starters, never mind their back up. And that’s before you even look at the midfielders and forwards. I’m not bothered whether you spend it or what you spend it on, it makes no difference to me whatsoever. Only pointing out again that there’s more than one way to skin a cat. And as I’ve also said, whoever replaces Guardiola may have a completely different approach again. It’s horses for courses.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

So they report it as £'s and then adjust it over time depending on the exchange rate of the euro? Seems a bit pointless, and like you say, confusing.

Yes, confusing, and widely ignored by crap hacks who like to quote excessive figures.

It's a German site, and if you look at the German version, it will report on euros, so is entirely consistent for them. I think it's probably tied to them using Market Value more than we might.

 

[Greggery Peccary]

Yes, confusing, and widely ignored by crap hacks who like to quote excessive figures.

It's a German site, and if you look at the German version, it will report on euros, so is entirely consistent for them. I think it's probably tied to them using Market Value more than we might.

Spot on about the media who want as fancy numbers as possible. Transfer fees are an absolute farce these days, they have no real basis in reality. And with the exception of a few, nobody will ever really remember modern fees, only whether they were good or bad for the team. Firmino is a great example for us, not arsed what we paid for him, only massively grateful that he’s ours and for what he brings to us.

 

[domalino]

So they report it as £'s and then adjust it over time depending on the exchange rate of the euro? Seems a bit pointless, and like you say, confusing.

It's because it's a german database. So they enter in a € fee for the transfer.

Then when you go a long to the uk version of the website or the US version it pulls that data and translates it into pounds or dollars for ease of use but at today's exchange rate.

So if the pound/dollar gets weaker against the euro then the prices go up, it they get stronger prices go down.

It's just a design flaw in their website.

 

[Greggery Peccary]

Great post with many great points.

On your point about Foden, if Shinawatra, and then HRH, hadn’t come along Micah would have gone long before he eventually did.

Ederson cost in the region of £35 million; Allison £65 million. Even if Littlewoods' ‘keeper is better than ours, and I don’t think he is, he certainly isn’t £30 million better.

Laporte cost £57 million; van Dijkhead £75. As good as Aymeric is in our system, jut imagine who’s outstanding he would look with three defensive midfielders in front of him.

Little Pecker can’t (or won’t) understand the points that you, I and fellow Bluemooners are trying to put across to him.

I understand exactly what you’re saying, I don’t necessarily agree with the context in certain situations. The Laporte & Van Dijk example is a perfect case in point. You use two utterly arbitrary figures that bear no tangible relations to the players abilities or skills. They were decided by men in suits who can’t affect how the signings play on the pitch. The fact is they’re two brilliant centre halves who are amongst the best in the world in their position. If you think we play with three defensive midfielders, you need to watch more. Don’t confuse ground covered with defensiveness, pack hunting in the opposition half to swarm and retrieve the ball is hardly defensive. And whilst they do their bit with goals, look at our flanks and where they fit in. It’s all about the shape of your team and how it fits, not catch all terms like ‘three defensive midfielders’.
As for the keeper, I was shocked at how much we paid. Not that I didn’t rate him or wasn’t pleased to get him, but by how much we actually paid. I think Roma must have thought they’d get top dollar after how the Salah deal panned out. But he’s amazing in my book, one of the biggest signings we’ve ever made. Game changer and worth every penny. Same with Van Dijk.

 

[SilverFox2]

You’re not too bright, are you? I clearly said that you spent half, yes half, the time nowhere near us. That’s a fact. The other half has been somewhat different as has already been acknowledged. That’s why we can’t make an accurate side by side comparison. It’s not that hard, you know.

Got to say we were rubbish on and off the field up to when our current owners arrived.
The fear this put into the history cluhs gave birth to FFP which created this attempt at a barrier to entry.
Your fears were correct and investment rather than donation occurred despite FFP.

You are rightly proud of your team and we are proud of our owners achievements. I have to say previous owners at City made us laugh as well as being the butt of derision from other supporters.
I think our investment phase of the business plan had to overcome an FFP designed to simply stop our needed investment by a concerned cartel of owners which as you know is illegal in every other sector of business.

 

[Greggery Peccary]

Got to say we were rubbish on and off the field up to when our current owners arrived.
The fear this put into the history cluhs gave birth to FFP which created this attempt at a barrier to entry.
Your fears were correct and investment rather than donation occurred despite FFP.

You are rightly proud of your team and we are proud of our owners achievements. I have to say previous owners at City made us laugh as well as being the butt of derision from other supporters.
I think our investment phase of the business plan had to overcome an FFP designed to simply stop our needed investment by a concerned cartel of owners which as you know is illegal in every other sector of business.

I don’t want to get into this too much as it leads to too many arguments, but I think the concern was more that you & PSG were effectively bankrolled by sovereign states rather than private individuals or corporations per se. This would effectively blow all other clubs out of the water because no corporations or individuals had resources like that or could begin to compete in a bidding war. Of course we both know in this instance that the reality is more nuanced than that. I can understand the protectionism angle towards the ‘cartel’ as you call it but since the inception of G14 20 years ago, nearly every member has won a European trophy, in lots of cases multiple ones. They’ve earned their right at the top of the pile on the pitch. That said, the rules do favour them in another way. But FFP isn’t just about the big clubs, the mandate for a club to spend within its means is a brilliant idea in my book. Places the emphasis on coaching and recruitment - exactly how the football side of a club should work.