Religion

[I'm With Stupid]

He goes to a normal church or what you'd call a normal church and he's a new convert mate. He's always giving me suggestions about which you tube video to watch and goes on about how the earth isn't round in any way but it's flat and he genuinely believes that the water would drop off the bottom of the earth if it wasn't.

Yeah, sounds like one of those people who gets dragged into a web of bullshit and they end up believing all sorts of unrelated stuff. There's nothing really to link Christianity and the flat earth movement other than the fact that the same people happen to fall for both myths, and probably Youtube/Facebook algorithms can predict that someone watching lots of bullshit religious conspiracy theory videos is probably going to be ripe for flat Earth ones too. Is he an anti-vaxxer too by any chance?

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Frankly bizarre that anyone would expect it to. There's zero primary evidence for Pilate, the governor of Judea. There's sod all for Quirinius except his appointment.

Once again, people are holding stuff to higher standards than for anywhere else in the ancient world. Hell, there's sweet FA about most of Claudius' reign as emperor for that matter, while Vespasian's life is almost entirely a mystery up to his accession. These are emperors.

Historians do not dispute Jesus' authenticity. Most accept the Gospel of John as an eyewitness account. I guess BM know better.

To be fair, there are very few people who claim that our society and laws should be based around the life and teachings of Claudius, so it's understandable that the realities surrounding the existence of Jesus (or Mohammed, or any other religious figure, for that matter) is subject to greater scrutiny than that of a mere historical figure, given that people are still keen on shoving his supposed teachings down everyone's throat and ultimately making all of us subject to them in terms of social rules and laws.

 

[oldtimerdiscopants]

Yeah, sounds like one of those people who gets dragged into a web of bullshit and they end up believing all sorts of unrelated stuff. There's nothing really to link Christianity and the flat earth movement other than the fact that the same people happen to fall for both myths, and probably Youtube/Facebook algorithms can predict that someone watching lots of bullshit religious conspiracy theory videos is probably going to be ripe for flat Earth ones too. Is he an anti-vaxxer too by any chance?

One of the reasons why his wife called it a day was because health and fitness was down to God and not anything silly like vaccinations. The biggest problem his family faced is that because he has a relationship with God and in particular with Jesus and he isn't doing joined up thinking on other things the medical profession are reluctant to do a mental heath assessment.
I'm of the firm and staunch belief that a great entity doesn't exist and that God didn't write any of the books so I am in a really awkward position to dispute too vigorously his claims to the contrary, personally and my own honest opinion is that he's on the edge of a mental breakdown and is getting no help for it.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

One of the reasons why his wife called it a day was because health and fitness was down to God and not anything silly like vaccinations. The biggest problem his family faced is that because he has a relationship with God and in particular with Jesus and he isn't doing joined up thinking on other things the medical profession are reluctant to do a mental heath assessment.
I'm of the firm and staunch belief that a great entity doesn't exist and that God didn't write any of the books so I am in a really awkward position to dispute too vigorously his claims to the contrary, personally and my own honest opinion is that he's on the edge of a mental breakdown and is getting no help for it.

Hmm, yeah I think the traditional Christopher Hitchens/Richard Dawkins approach isn't going to make any ground, particularly with a religious convert. I did see a brilliant video once of someone who simply asked questions in the way that Louis Theroux might to get them to think about the logical conclusions of their beliefs and get them to challenge their own views and come to conclusions themselves. I can't remember what it was called though. But again, it probably works better with the sort of people who are religious but have never really been exposed to alternative viewpoints and never really thought about it, rather than the religious converts. Of course the alternative is to simply lead the person to a less extreme form of the religion, but another more moderate religious person might be best-placed to do that.

But yeah, it would be interesting to know what the trigger for their conversion was. Because based on the stories I've read, there is usually some sort of emotionally-based reason for someone converting to a religion, particularly if they were completely non-religious beforehand.

 

[Henkeman]

To be fair, there are very few people who claim that our society and laws should be based around the life and teachings of Claudius, so it's understandable that the realities surrounding the existence of Jesus (or Mohammed, or any other religious figure, for that matter) is subject to greater scrutiny than that of a mere historical figure, given that people are still keen on shoving his supposed teachings down everyone's throat and ultimately making all of us subject to them in terms of social rules and laws.

I'm purely talking about the historical record. Odd that for the third time in this thread, I end up having to point out I'm an atheist.

Accepting the historical probability of events does not make me an advocate for Christianity. At all.

 

[better dead than red]

It’s doesnt really (although Tennessee is still technically dry iirc). It does have dry counties, however. In fact the Jack Daniels distillery is located in one such county, believe it or not.

It is county by county as well.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I'm purely talking about the historical record. Odd that for the third time in this thread, I end up having to point out I'm an atheist.

Accepting the historical probability of events does not make me an advocate for Christianity. At all.

No, but it's still a reason why it gets more scrutiny that other historical events in popular culture. No doubt academic historians treat Jesus exactly the same as any other claimed historical figure.

 

[better dead than red]

Not to mention that in Mein Kampf Hitler mentioned 'doing God's work about 5 or 6 times; the SS had something like 'God is strength' as their motto (think it was written on their belts) and the Vatican not only endorsed Hitler, but celebrated his birthday! Nazi Germany was in many ways a theocracy.


To add to that: in the story of Nativity, Joseph and Mary returning to Bethlehem to take part in a census. Even ignoring the somewhat self-defeating idea that censuses required people to return to their place of birth (as opposed to staying and being accounted for in the place they were living - kind of the point of a census), there is no record whatsoever of a census taking place at that time (yet all others were recorded and kept).

The SS motto translated to "My honour is called loyalty.'

Hitler was neither a Christian nor an atheist. He used most every position available at times to manipulate the public as he saw necessary.

 

[better dead than red]

Frankly bizarre that anyone would expect it to. There's zero primary evidence for Pilate, the governor of Judea. There's sod all for Quirinius except his appointment.

Once again, people are holding stuff to higher standards than for anywhere else in the ancient world. Hell, there's sweet FA about most of Claudius' reign as emperor for that matter, while Vespasian's life is almost entirely a mystery up to his accession. These are emperors.

Historians do not dispute Jesus' authenticity. Most accept the Gospel of John as an eyewitness account. I guess BM know better.

Don't mind them. Christians are easy targets in their mind. It'll typically be a long wait before most of them mock the prophet of Islam. (pbuh).

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I still cant get over the idea of the USA having dry states, its a weird place in parts.

Which states are those?

There are dry COUNTIES, and some counties have dry Sundays only, but there are no dry STATES of which I’m aware.