Religion

[mancity2012_eamo]

Oh, I can get rip roaringly wound up - one of the ‘benefits’ of reading this thread - but then it’s a question of how to be with that. Now we ARE getting into Kung Fu Panda territory, lmao

Ah so! Master Po.

 

[arfurclue]

Ah so! Master Po.

:) Not all martial arts are the same - but there can be a point in some where, oddly enough, it feels like you are more dealing with your inner stuff first and the opponent second. And there can be practices that will bring up your hidden fears, rage, confusion, inadequacies, insecurity etc to be released. So it kinda tickles me when people speak of religion/spirituality being at best a few kind words to pat someone on the back with when they’re going through a bit of a rough patch…

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

:) Not all martial arts are the same - but there can be a point in some where, oddly enough, it feels like you are more dealing with your inner stuff first and the opponent second. And there can be practices that will bring up your hidden fears, rage, confusion, inadequacies, insecurity etc to be released. So it kinda tickles me when people speak of religion/spirituality being at best a few kind words to pat someone on the back with when they’re going through a bit of a rough patch…

Bingo.

 

[Blue Mist]

I'm starting to think this thread might need some sort of fact checking mechanism.

Or 200 pounds of explosive

 

[arfurclue]

Bingo.

Ahahahaha. But, yeah. Some might call it archetypal but it can also be incredibly practical. Have a go sometime…or don’t :)
Edit : A question…do you believe that, for example, politicians might attempt to use the anger and fear of an electorate to try and win votes and, in this way, begin to influence the type of politics and policies that come about?

 

[tonea2003]

did he say he was god though?

"i and the father are one".... to me thats quite vague and could have multiple meanings. Context is important IMO. Jesus never spoke in ambiguous words. Id expected him to say, I am God in flesh. Or pray to me. He never did either of the two.

Another argument, when he was about to be crucified he prayed to his father. Take this cup away from me. Why would he pray to god if he was god?

And there are multiple verses where he says "I go to my god and your god".

Hence the confusion and different versions.

firstly you say the quote is vague and the next you say jesus never spoke in ambiguous words, you can't have it both ways
take this cup is from matthew 26:39 /42 i believe
also in john 19:7 the writer explicitly has the jews saying he must die according to our law as he claims to be the son of god.

the mere fact they attempted to stone him after 10:30 the writer is insinuating blasphemy, pretty clear cut to me but agree there are interpretations to be had elsewhere

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I'm starting to think this thread might need some sort of fact checking mechanism.

Welcome my friend to the world of "alternative" facts - where anything is real or not as you wish.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Welcome my friend to the world of "alternative" facts - where anything is real or not as you wish.

Is that not the politics thread.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Is that not the politics thread.

And is not religion, politics?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

And is not religion, politics?

Touché

 

[arfurclue]

Welcome my friend to the world of "alternative" facts - where anything is real or not as you wish.

William Blake might have agreed with you when he wrote :

”If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is: Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.”

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Just curious - but would you say that your writing in this way is an example of someone who has a strong mind?

No, merely A mind.

Does the ability to see the grand delusion for what it is require a strong mind?

The suppositions required for even a scintilla of “belief” are literally unbelievable, yet one is asked to suspend any such thoughts via a show of “faith,” the spackle that fills the massive voids in the believability in the world’s religions.

 

[journolud]

This is surely the most wordy and baffling thread on bluemoon

 

[andyhinch]

This is surely the most wordy and baffling thread on bluemoon

Less contentious than the Barm/muffin thread though.

 

[journolud]

Less contentious than the Barm/muffin thread though.

Certainly that’s an issue that science will never resolve

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I don’t agree with your 2nd paragraph.

It has certainly been used for that, both by the church and kings/queens/governments etc. but this originally started as a small sect or cult following that was a million miles from power and didn’t seek to overthrow the Roman or Jewish authorities.

Regarding timing, Luke states to begin with and is honest that he’s copied from other documents that came well before his. Paul writes in about 50-55AD to a church to follow the “scripture” he’s given them in reference to Jesus. I think there were documents floating around just after the fact.

The thing that makes it hardest to believe is obviously the miracles and supernatural events but also some of the inconsistencies.

Many things start out as one thing and become something wholly different.

“The Church,” as we know it today, is certainly a corrupt power broker. And, depending on the specific church and their needs, often despotic in their actions.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The Church has personified that for most of the time since inception.

 

[arfurclue]

No, merely A mind.

Does the ability to see the grand delusion for what it is require a strong mind?

The suppositions required for even a scintilla of “belief” are literally unbelievable, yet one is asked to suspend any such thoughts via a show of “faith,” the spackle that fills the massive voids in the believability in the world’s religions.

I’m sure that sounds clever to you.

 

[Octavian]

That’s possibly because they were all made up years after the fact ? Just a thought.

Of course it’s possible but that’s not even debated by the experts, even atheist ones and I don’t believe so.

All four gospels used various previous sources so you’d need multiple people across decades all making up the same story independently of each other. Easy to do now with the internet (and easy to disprove now) but if you went to a secular scholarship convention and said it was all made up and none of it happened, you’d get laughed out the building, even by the atheists.

As ever with oral tradition, the further back you go from the fact, the different things become.

It’s why John has Jesus saying things that the other earlier three gospels do not.

 

[Octavian]

Many things start out as one thing and become something wholly different.

“The Church,” as we know it today, is certainly a corrupt power broker. And, depending on the specific church and their needs, often despotic in their actions.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The Church has personified that for most of the time since inception.

I agree but it depends which church. There are many small and independent ones that likely aren’t corrupt but if we’re discussing the big ones, for example Rome - I agree with you whole heartedly

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I’m sure that sounds clever to you.

Likewise.

It was meant to succinctly provide a picture. You may see a different picture than I tried to portray. Maybe that’s a failure on my part. Or, maybe on yours.