Religion

My take on the key message of Christianity in five words would be that we are told to-

"Love God, Love our Neighbours"

(If you like replace God with - The Cosmos, The Earth, Creation or whatever you can believe in.)

If we all did that then the world would be a much better place for all.
 
My take on the key message of Christianity in five words would be that we are told to-

"Love God, Love our Neighbours"

(If you like replace God with - The Cosmos, The Earth, Creation or whatever you can believe in.)

If we all did that then the world would be a much better place for all.
Absolutely mate.
 
I’d say that even 30 years ago, if anyone spoke of depression they be labeled weak or mad or be told to pull their socks up. Thankfully this has changed/ is changing.
But what seems apparent is that, if anyone wishes to speak of/ open to an inspiration beyond depression that might in any way be seen as spiritual/religious, then attitudes are similar to those that there were for depression. Actually, If this thread is anything to go by, the attitudes are worse. More abusive, less understanding and apparently there is some kind of great pride to be had in being seen as the one that can mock the most. These attitudes seemingly dressed up as ‘truth.’
So agree/disagree, whatever but maybe there can be an element of compasión and ‘heart’ within this. Otherwise, quite frankly, I wonder whether this thread is really just an excuse to indulge in a toxic masculinity rather than a genuine debate on religion. Not so ‘advanced’ surely?
 
I’d say that even 30 years ago, if anyone spoke of depression they be labeled weak or mad or be told to pull their socks up. Thankfully this has changed/ is changing.
But what seems apparent is that, if anyone wishes to speak of/ open to an inspiration beyond depression that might in any way be seen as spiritual/religious, then attitudes are similar to those that there were for depression. Actually, If this thread is anything to go by, the attitudes are worse. More abusive, less understanding and apparently there is some kind of great pride to be had in being seen as the one that can mock the most. These attitudes seemingly dressed up as ‘truth.’
So agree/disagree, whatever but maybe there can be an element of compasión and ‘heart’ within this. Otherwise, quite frankly, I wonder whether this thread is really just an excuse to indulge in a toxic masculinity rather than a genuine debate on religion. Not so ‘advanced’ surely?
I think it's sad that people can't just respect others beliefs without ridiculing or trying to belittle them.
Live and let live.
 
I’d say that even 30 years ago, if anyone spoke of depression they be labeled weak or mad or be told to pull their socks up. Thankfully this has changed/ is changing.
But what seems apparent is that, if anyone wishes to speak of/ open to an inspiration beyond depression that might in any way be seen as spiritual/religious, then attitudes are similar to those that there were for depression. Actually, If this thread is anything to go by, the attitudes are worse. More abusive, less understanding and apparently there is some kind of great pride to be had in being seen as the one that can mock the most. These attitudes seemingly dressed up as ‘truth.’
So agree/disagree, whatever but maybe there can be an element of compasión and ‘heart’ within this. Otherwise, quite frankly, I wonder whether this thread is really just an excuse to indulge in a toxic masculinity rather than a genuine debate on religion. Not so ‘advanced’ surely?
I take exception to the ‘toxic masculinity’ phrase.

I, from memory, have said (approx) that whatever helps an individual through anything is fine. Whatever someone needs to have a non self destructive placebo is fine. If that is a religious belief then fine. For the individual.

serious issues come when that placebo becomes a zealotry.

if you want to pick and choose parts of a human written religious text to lead your life by, fine, but acknowledge that you have picked and chosen.

If you believe you follow religious text to the nth degree and get called out on it for whatever reason - not answering simple discrepancies, facts, absurdities, quoting X from a book to prove Y in the same book, then…
 
I'm not religious but I think people should be allowed to believe in whatever God or science they want without ridicule. Or being told they're insane.

how about the ones that fly planes into buildings and blow up people in the name of religion. I think we should be a little critical of those pesky buggers.
 
To be fair, some of them marched in sevens. Must have been a big fucking boat. The thing I love about creationists is that they spend so much time trashing science when it contradicts something in their holy book, but the second there's some proper scientific evidence that even hints that part of it might be true, they're all over it. For example, there's a certain amount of geological evidence for a large flooding event in the Middle East that could have explained the Noah myth. Creationists are all over this. But when the same field present evidence for the age of the earth or the survival of fossils, they don't want to hear it.
From what we know in modern times about pathogens, the ark would have been rife for disease spreading from one animal species to another when keeping them in cages in close proximity to each other. With only a small umber of each of them, that ark would have meant extinction for many of the animals on there (including a high possibility of extinction to the humans on there as well).
 
From what we know in modern times about pathogens, the ark would have been rife for disease spreading from one animal species to another when keeping them in cages in close proximity to each other. With only a small umber of each of them, that ark would have meant extinction for many of the animals on there (including a high possibility of extinction to the humans on there as well).
So...

A big wooden boat capable of holding at least 2 of every species of animal on the planet???

Currently 6495 mammal's on the planet, so there's 12990 for starers. When you consider how big Chester Zoo is and they only have 1571 mammal's in total I'm starting to think this whole Ark thing is a little implausible.... or is this another one of those fables that isn't meant to be taken 'literally'?
 
Then Noah built an altar and offered burnt offerings to the Lord on it. And God said, “Never again will I curse the ground because of man or send a flood to destroy all living things, even though mankind’s heart is evil from childhood.” And God blessed Noah and his family saying, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth” (Genesis 8:20–22).

God gets pissed at his creation, kills it, then says "look at how benevolent I am, I promise not to kill you again, swearsies!" then endorses incest. And the take of the story is look how God cares for us. We're evil from birth and God reminded us of that by killing us so that we should remember it.
 
But what seems apparent is that, if anyone wishes to speak of/ open to an inspiration beyond depression that might in any way be seen as spiritual/religious, then attitudes are similar to those that there were for depression.
The neuroscientists Mark Waldman and Andrew Newberg have published several books exploring the neurological benefits of contemplative spiritual practices such as prayer and meditation. In one study, they scanned the brains of American Buddhists practising a form of Tibetan meditation and Franciscan nuns engaged in contemplative prayer and found that there was both an increase and decrease in the neural activity of the same parts of the brain in their experimental subjects, which suggests that at this level of explanation (the purely physical) there may be a common core to this type of experience, in spite of the fact that we are talking about two contrasting traditions that are respectively non-theistic and theistic in terms of their ontological truth-claims.

The authors conclude that, 'Our brain scan studies of contemplative forms of Buddhist and Christian meditation show that when activity in the parietal areas decreases, a sense of timelessness and spacelessness emerges. This allows the meditator to feel at one with the object of contemplation: God, the universe, peacefulness or any other object on which he or she focuses.'

Michael Pollan’s book on the therapeutic use of psychedelics (also referenced upthread) highlights some important recent research into the neural correlates of psilocybin-induced mystical experience, which notes a similarly characteristic sense of ego-loss or ego dissolution. Brain activity during this experience correlates similarly with the findings of Newberg and Waldman.

So how is this good for you?

Ongoing clinical trials at institutions like New York University, Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, and Imperial College in London are yielding some dramatic findings, namely, that a one-off, carefully controlled drug-induced mystical experience can have entirely benevolent and profoundly transformative effects on patients who are struggling with addiction, anxiety, depression, and a diagnosis of terminal cancer. For example, in trials at NYU and Hopkins, 80 per cent of cancer patients exhibited clinically significant reductions in standard measures of anxiety and depression, an effect that was maintained for at least six months after having been given a dose of psilocybin.

Sara Lazar at Harvard further confirms the benefits of regular meditation and the structural changes in the brain that it can elicit, especially when it comes to changes in the amount of gray matter in the prefrontal cortex:


The voluminous literature on Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy has also demonstrated its considerable benefits for those suffering from chronic pain, anxiety, depression, and other conditions.

Now it is arguable that intensive spiritual practice is at the very heart of faith. As I have stated in other posts in this thread, the great mystics who can be found in all the major religious traditions all speak of a sense of unity with something greater than themselves.

Anyway, it seems to me undeniable that spirituality can confer benefits in terms of both psychological and physical health, regardless of whether these reported experiences of 'oneness' are veridical. Which reminds me of an embarrassing TV moment.




What I think draws ire from atheists and sceptics who see no value whatsoever in religion is arguably something quite different from this and is more to do with the content of allegedly 'revelatory' scripture that makes absurd, frequently mythically-based truth-claims that fly in the face of what we know about science, and is typically accompanied by the assertion that there is some kind of vindictive, authoritarian and punitive deity who is getting his knickers in a twist about what we get up to down here and will consign us all to a fiery fate if we don't do what He says.

I would be happily join with attacks on religion in that sense. But as I have hopefully demonstrated above, there is an entire other sense of 'religion' that might actually be better described as 'spirituality' and that certainly seems to have something going for it.
 
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