Religious belief & intelligence

[Len Rum]

Not intelligence as such but I don't like the whole stereotype of science against religion. ( I'm a final year student in Theoretical Physics and Maths)

I'm not "stick to the holy text" religious, but I believe in something bring out there.

What annoys me is people who call themselves scientists "disproving" God by saying that the big bang created the universe and not God.
What they fall to realise is that the big bang is just how the universe came to be as we know it now. Something had to be there for there to be a big bang.. and where did that come from?

I.e what fuelled the explosion and, what set the fuse?

There may have been something before the Big Bang but if it is proposed that this "thing" is god then it doesn't help us. It simply provokes the question who or what created god.

God is never a reasonable answer in these circumstances.

Quite true, but similarly, people claiming there is NO God because the big bang created the universe are equally unhelpful.

There is no proof whatsoever that there is, or isn't, a God. There are arguments for both, but no definitive answer.

That's not the point. It' s up to the 'believers' to prove that there is a God.

" What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."

 

[PragueBlue]

There may have been something before the Big Bang but if it is proposed that this "thing" is god then it doesn't help us. It simply provokes the question who or what created god.

God is never a reasonable answer in these circumstances.

Quite true, but similarly, people claiming there is NO God because the big bang created the universe are equally unhelpful.

There is no proof whatsoever that there is, or isn't, a God. There are arguments for both, but no definitive answer.

That's not the point. It' s up to the 'believers' to prove that there is a God.

As it would be up to an atheist the prove that there isn't a God. Both positions are impossible to prove and each individual chooses which position he feels is correct.

There are many scientists/philosophers etc that have belief in a God and there are many that don't. Each to their own I say.

It would be nice if there was more tolerance on both sides but sadly this seems unlikely as the extremists on both sides make more noise and generally have a wider platform.

 

[Len Rum]

Quite true, but similarly, people claiming there is NO God because the big bang created the universe are equally unhelpful.

There is no proof whatsoever that there is, or isn't, a God. There are arguments for both, but no definitive answer.

That's not the point. It' s up to the 'believers' to prove that there is a God.

As it would be up to an atheist the prove that there isn't a God. Both positions are impossible to prove and each individual chooses which position he feels is correct.

There are many scientists/philosophers etc that have belief in a God and there are many that don't. Each to their own I say.

It would be nice if there was more tolerance on both sides but sadly this seems unlikely as the extremists on both sides make more noise and generally have a wider platform.

Sorry mate, you missed out the quote from my post which I will repeat for your benefit:

"What is asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."

 

[dazdon]

God bothering is soooo last year.

 

[Matty]

Quite true, but similarly, people claiming there is NO God because the big bang created the universe are equally unhelpful.

There is no proof whatsoever that there is, or isn't, a God. There are arguments for both, but no definitive answer.

That's not the point. It' s up to the 'believers' to prove that there is a God.

As it would be up to an atheist the prove that there isn't a God. Both positions are impossible to prove and each individual chooses which position he feels is correct..

Sorry mate but that's completey untrue.

It's entirely possible to prove the existance of something that exists. Prove to me that cats exist. All you'd need to do was show me a feckin' cat!

What is impossible is to prove the non-existance of something. Prove to me that, at the bottom of the Marianas Trench, there isn't a six legged weasel called Barry, playing the ukelele and wearing a Liverpool shirt circa 1987. You can't. Even if you took a submarine and scoured the trench in depth you haven't proven he's not there. Maybe he's just really good at hiding?

Those who believe there is no God can make educated guesses, and they can try and demonstrate why things that could be attributed to God (and have been historically) are actually naturally occuring phenomenon, but they can't prove he doesn't exist. As stated above, proving the non-existance of something is not scientifically possible.

The weight of proof falls on the person/people who claim something to be true, not on those who disagree with that claim. The belief in God came before the belief that he isn't real. If the religious believe God actually exists then it is upon them to demonstrate that this is actually the truth. As someone who does not believe that God exists the whole concept of not needed proof as you've got faith is just a cop out and in itself demonstrative of a lack of ability to prove the case for God's existance.

 

[PragueBlue]

That's not the point. It' s up to the 'believers' to prove that there is a God.

As it would be up to an atheist the prove that there isn't a God. Both positions are impossible to prove and each individual chooses which position he feels is correct..

Sorry mate but that's completey untrue.

It's entirely possible to prove the existance of something that exists. Prove to me that cats exist. All you'd need to do was show me a feckin' cat!

What is impossible is to prove the non-existance of something. Prove to me that, at the bottom of the Marianas Trench, there isn't a six legged weasel called Barry, playing the ukelele and wearing a Liverpool shirt circa 1987. You can't. Even if you took a submarine and scoured the trench in depth you haven't proven he's not there. Maybe he's just really good at hiding?

Those who believe there is no God can make educated guesses, and they can try and demonstrate why things that could be attributed to God (and have been historically) are actually naturally occuring phenomenon, but they can't prove he doesn't exist. As stated above, proving the non-existance of something is not scientifically possible.

The weight of proof falls on the person/people who claim something to be true, not on those who disagree with that claim. The belief in God came before the belief that he isn't real. If the religious believe God actually exists then it is upon them to demonstrate that this is actually the truth. As someone who does not believe that God exists the whole concept of not needed proof as you've got faith is just a cop out and in itself demonstrative of a lack of ability to prove the case for God's existance.

To me an agnostic doesn't have a position to prove but an atheist takes the position that there is no God which to me is also a position of faith rather than fact, just as a religious person takes a position based on faith rather than fact.

I appreciate that it is impossible to empirically prove that something doesn't exist but it is equally impossible to prove that something supernatural exits as science can only provide proof of the observable and natural. That, however, cannot be taken as proof that the supernatural doesn't exist.

I have my own beliefs which I feel very comfortable with and I'm sure you feel the same about your views. Anyway I promised myself that I wouldn't get embroiled in any more political or religious discussions on the internet and I shall stick to that.

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

Why do people try and push what they believe onto other people?

this might as well be the muffin or barm thread.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Why do people try and push what they believe onto other people?

In fairness mate, that is precisely what the church and brainwashing religious parents have been doing for centuries, which is why we end up with numerous global sectarian conflicts over who has the best imaginary friend that serve no purpose other than to send millions of folk to an early grave.

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

Why do people try and push what they believe onto other people?

In fairness mate, that is precisely what the church and brainwashing religious parents have been doing for centuries, which is why we end up with numerous global sectarian conflicts over who has the best imaginary friend that serve no purpose other than to send millions of folk to an early grave.

I know. Every religious organisation in history has done it. But what is the point in arguing with people who have faith? It is the same principle.
If someone comes on too strong with their beliefs, I will remove myself from the situation.

 

[malg]

I once worked for a very wealthy successful man who happened to be Jewish, he loved to debate religion, football, anything. I once asked him how he could believe that the earth was only 5000 + years old (Jewish calendar) when dinosaur fossils etc had been discovered. His answer "God" made the earth with the fossils, bones buried there to create interest for people!

A true believer indeed.

Has anyone else mentioned that this is a Bill Hicks sketch?