Religious belief & intelligence

[dronefromsector7g]

This thread has ended up like all the previous religious threads. I don't believe in God like some others here. Some do believe but neither side can prove it. I think people just like a discussion/argument.

Barm

 

[Len Rum]

As it would be up to an atheist the prove that there isn't a God. Both positions are impossible to prove and each individual chooses which position he feels is correct..

Sorry mate but that's completey untrue.

It's entirely possible to prove the existance of something that exists. Prove to me that cats exist. All you'd need to do was show me a feckin' cat!

What is impossible is to prove the non-existance of something. Prove to me that, at the bottom of the Marianas Trench, there isn't a six legged weasel called Barry, playing the ukelele and wearing a Liverpool shirt circa 1987. You can't. Even if you took a submarine and scoured the trench in depth you haven't proven he's not there. Maybe he's just really good at hiding?

Those who believe there is no God can make educated guesses, and they can try and demonstrate why things that could be attributed to God (and have been historically) are actually naturally occuring phenomenon, but they can't prove he doesn't exist. As stated above, proving the non-existance of something is not scientifically possible.

The weight of proof falls on the person/people who claim something to be true, not on those who disagree with that claim. The belief in God came before the belief that he isn't real. If the religious believe God actually exists then it is upon them to demonstrate that this is actually the truth. As someone who does not believe that God exists the whole concept of not needed proof as you've got faith is just a cop out and in itself demonstrative of a lack of ability to prove the case for God's existance.

To me an agnostic doesn't have a position to prove but an atheist takes the position that there is no God which to me is also a position of faith rather than fact, just as a religious person takes a position based on faith rather than fact.

I appreciate that it is impossible to empirically prove that something doesn't exist but it is equally impossible to prove that something supernatural exits as science can only provide proof of the observable and natural. That, however, cannot be taken as proof that the supernatural doesn't exist.

I have my own beliefs which I feel very comfortable with and I'm sure you feel the same about your views. Anyway I promised myself that I wouldn't get embroiled in any more political or religious discussions on the internet and I shall stick to that.

Nonsense. Taking a position that there is no God is not a position of faith. But putting that to one side, this supernatural being, can you please explain what are it's beliefs are because it seems nobody can agree on that. Sort of like makes a nonsense of the whole business of faith doesn't it.

 

[Matty]

As it would be up to an atheist the prove that there isn't a God. Both positions are impossible to prove and each individual chooses which position he feels is correct..

Sorry mate but that's completey untrue.

It's entirely possible to prove the existance of something that exists. Prove to me that cats exist. All you'd need to do was show me a feckin' cat!

What is impossible is to prove the non-existance of something. Prove to me that, at the bottom of the Marianas Trench, there isn't a six legged weasel called Barry, playing the ukelele and wearing a Liverpool shirt circa 1987. You can't. Even if you took a submarine and scoured the trench in depth you haven't proven he's not there. Maybe he's just really good at hiding?

Those who believe there is no God can make educated guesses, and they can try and demonstrate why things that could be attributed to God (and have been historically) are actually naturally occuring phenomenon, but they can't prove he doesn't exist. As stated above, proving the non-existance of something is not scientifically possible.

The weight of proof falls on the person/people who claim something to be true, not on those who disagree with that claim. The belief in God came before the belief that he isn't real. If the religious believe God actually exists then it is upon them to demonstrate that this is actually the truth. As someone who does not believe that God exists the whole concept of not needed proof as you've got faith is just a cop out and in itself demonstrative of a lack of ability to prove the case for God's existance.

To me an agnostic doesn't have a position to prove but an atheist takes the position that there is no God which to me is also a position of faith rather than fact, just as a religious person takes a position based on faith rather than fact.

I appreciate that it is impossible to empirically prove that something doesn't exist but it is equally impossible to prove that something supernatural exits as science can only provide proof of the observable and natural. That, however, cannot be taken as proof that the supernatural doesn't exist.

I have my own beliefs which I feel very comfortable with and I'm sure you feel the same about your views. Anyway I promised myself that I wouldn't get embroiled in any more political or religious discussions on the internet and I shall stick to that.

Firstly, the believe that there is not such thing as God is in no way a position of faith. It is a decision reached due to the complete and total lack of evidence to support the opposite position. I also don't actually believe that Barry the 6 legged weasel exists either, that's not a position of faith, there's just zero evidence that he does exist.

Secondly, I put it to you that the reason you can prove the existance of things that are observable and natural, but can't prove the existance of the supernatural is because the supernatural is as much hokum as the entire concept of God. Of course you can't prove the existence of the supernatural, because the supernatural, like God, is a construct of the human condition that there needs to be an explanation, a cause, an answer for everything. Anything that could be categorised as "supernatural" has been done so because it has defied definition as natural. Ghosts, God, whatever you want to class as supernatural, the fact you can't prove they exist is because they don't exist.

 

[mick10]

Yes of course it is!
I often feel there are too many atheists or people who simply don't believe in religion, who by those simple definations, believe themselves to be more intelligent than those who do believe. Not religious nor a believer myself, but I certainly don't think any believer in God is an idiot, or some sort of plank because they do.

 

[BadApple]

Do religious folk believe in Dinosaurs?

 

[mick10]

Do religious folk believe in Dinosaurs?

No idea and I doubt you've the capabilities to ask each and everyone. This Dinosaur nonsense seems to be a recent thing, and is, in honesty embarrassing in regards to the claims.

 

[Len Rum]

Serious point, why doesn't God just manifest itself and tell us all what the score is - I.e. what is right and wrong, how we should live our lives whether there is an eternal after life, whether there is heaven or hell and what we have to do to enter the former and avoid the latter, just think of all the problems that would solve because the whole of mankind would be singing from the same hymn sheet - no more crime, no more wars, no more suffering, happy days because earthly possessions,wealth and power would become meaningless as life on earth would simply be a prelude to an ETERNAL after life.

 

[DelToro]

This thread has ended up like all the previous religious threads. I don't believe in God like some others here. Some do believe but neither side can prove it. I think people just like a discussion/argument.

Barm

I disagree.

 

[PragueBlue]

Serious point, why doesn't God just manifest itself .

I think that's exactly what Christians say Jesus did.

 

[Len Rum]

Serious point, why doesn't God just manifest itself .

I think that's exactly what Christians say Jesus did.

Yeah but that's just Christians, what about all the other faiths that don't believe Jesus was the son of God. Their beliefs are just as valid as yours because as we have agreed, these beliefs can not be proved. As I said God could resolve this by showing itself and clearing up all the confusion.