Remember being at the QPR game, the first monday night Sky game thinking wtf has happened to football. TV has brought the best players to our shores for which we should be grateful but the matchday experience is stuck in 1974.
Return of Supporters
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Bandofblues
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Irrespective of their original purpose, my Nightingale point is about separation of concern not demand. Remove Covid treatment from the normal hospital environment.
I still argue these stats don't back up the under pressure assertion
You can get monthly stats from the NHS website tracking Ventilator beds and how many of those are Covid related. Take a look at the difference between August and September stats and, well, there wasn't any....
I salute every single NHS worker for their dedication. No doubt the risk is still there for those with underlying health conditions but for the vast majority getting Covid doesnt mean anything.
Take schools for example, teachers are in a bubble of more than 100 and that's ignoring secondary relationships I.e the families of each child.
If a student gets Covid the entire class, often year, is being sent home to self isolate. So they do that, come back 2weeks later, someone else gets it, Rinse and Repeat. When is it ever going to end if that's how we deal with it?
Not allowed to meet any of my extended family yet we can all go the pub, go grouse shooting and the PL wants us to squeeze back onto the 3rd tier of the SS whilst maintaining social distancing?
Either enforce a common policy across all walks of life or dont bother. The current situation and conflicting implementation of rules is just a waste of time.
Manchester1894
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Irrespective of their original purpose, my Nightingale point is about separation of concern not demand. Remove Covid treatment from the normal hospital environment.
I still argue these stats don't back up the under pressure assertion
I don't to derail the thread as this is about fans returning - and our conversation probably belongs in the off-topic thead on COVID to be fair. But even with the stats for yesterday an extra 1000 people in hospital and roughly 10% on Ventilators is 1000 people that were not in hospital this time last year and that's putting severe pressure on overworked staff.
I recall doctors/nurses coming out of retirement, people working longer hours, the army lending support. It was all hands on deck.
Back to topic - would love fans to return but it's not even about the stadium environment. ANY clubs fans will use local buses, trains, share cars, coaches & cabs and catch flights given half the chance. Then there are pubs/cafes/concourses/chippys/restuarants/shops/supermarkets/social clubs and the members of the public they also come into close proximatey with. - this is then repeated on the return journey and back to home. So say in one house, a City and United fan live in Alty. Both are season card holders and alternate travelling to each home ground each week. Nightmare, especially when you take into account their work routine too. Until decent track and trace or vaccine, I cannot see that happening nor can I see the spread of the virus not escalating so quickly it has really bad consequences.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
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Just been watching the kids snatch defeat from the jaws of a draw and if that game was behind closed doors then I'm Sun Jihai's twin. No tickets will have been bought but there's folk not socially distancing standing on some balcony, and there seems to be way more than would be attached to the two teams.
Millwallawayveteran1988
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Can you imagine social distancing in Mary D’s before the game ?
The bar staff in the ground, who all happen to be University students.
it’s not going to happen for a while in the numbers that will make it a worthwhile experience. Sitting with 12000 people in a stadium that holds 55000 with a mask on with no singing and shouting. Where is the fun in that?
I am all for a live game over TV but this is a situation where TV, a nice drink and no hassle wins the day.
BillCarlisle
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Our local paper today ran an article on Carlisle's home game tomorrow. It's one of the experimental "let fans in'" matches. They're allowing 1,000 fans into Brunton Park, all socially distanced of course. That's pretty much comparable to 5,000 in the Etihad. In addition to all the other restrictions the article detailed, it begs the question as to why anyone would bother. TBH until we can all get together again to watch City in an uninhibited manner then this sterile situation is not for me. I'm with you on the settee.
Millwallawayveteran1988
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Bring some cans and a few bags of crisps and it’s a date!
Bazza_Talks
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It's a good post, but I do have to question the assumption that ventilator beds equate to Covid. You can't assume that. People end up on ventilators from pneumonia and flu too as well as other conditions.
My fear is that we are adopting all these measures (that are grotesquely expensive and storing up enormous health problems for years with its massive impact on everyone but especially the vulnerable (alzheimers, stress, depression, cancer, delayed operations etc)), for a problem that isn't actually any worse for the majority of the population than pneumonia or the flu. I admit to being strongly opposed to lockdowns, yet I can also see some justification for initially preferring this route (despite grotesque expense) because we didn't know enough about the virus at the time.
In my opinion if just one political party had strongly opposed the lockdown we wouldn't have taken such drastic steps. The government bottled it, the other political parties bottled it and nobody still wants to take responsibility. When we start paying for all this madness there is going to be one hell of a reckoning.
Bandofblues
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Bandofblues
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You misinterpreted. The stats specifically detail how many of the ventilator beds are ascribed to covid patients. For August vs September the number is virtually the same:
In England:
August 599 covid beds, 56 covid ventilators
September 468 covid beds, 58 covid ventilators
The stats are published in the first part of the month.
It will be interesting to see what the October stats say when published in a few weeks.
In England:
August 599 covid beds, 56 covid ventilators
September 468 covid beds, 58 covid ventilators
The stats are published in the first part of the month.
It will be interesting to see what the October stats say when published in a few weeks.
BlueRain
Well-Known Member
So you think Boris should have taken a leaf from Trump's book and stuck his fingers in his ears and sang "La La La" whilst thousands of people died? Wow...
Currently the number of people with COVID is doubling every 7-8 days which is a scary stat, local "lockdowns" are being largely ignored by large numbers of people (because they think it's a hoax, or not serious or whatever)
Going into pubs, shops etc you see more and more people without masks or ignoring one way systems simply because they aren't taking it seriously - sure those people may well get something like "flu" if they catch it but what about the people they give it to? Are they all going to have a cold for a few days or be very very ill (or worse)?
Experts are now saying a vaccine may not be the answer and anit-body resistence only lasts a couple of months at best - so a return to a packed Etihad may be a very long way off...
EricBrooksGhost
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Well if what you say is true then a return to a packed Etihad may be more likely because it would suggest the current approach does not work. Something a little more radical is required, rather than a continual cycle of lockdown followed by easing followed by lockdown as the infection rates mirror the cycle.
At some point it may dawn on decision makers that continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different outcome is not how they wish to be defined.
Bazza_Talks
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You are assuming that the lockdown itself hasn't killed people or ruined people's lives. There is a quality of life balance that must be considered or life just isn't worth living. What good is having more lives saved when everyone is just miserable? I genuinely mean that. Isn't it great that we're all alive, yet none of us have jobs because I've been made redundant because my company has gone under! What of the poor people who can't get cancer screenings because of cancelled appointments at hospitals and now they learn that their cancers are inoperable. What of the vulnerable people isolated, sinking even further into depression and drugs and homelessness and suicides. Lockdowns are really, really stupid. I am stunned there hasn't been a serious pushback against them. I genuinely expected there to be mass demonstrations, but so few resist. I must be really out of touch because I can't believe what the public has been swallowing from the garden variety scientists, health advisors, unions and politicians. The proposals, the claims, the data and rules fail again and again, yet poll after poll continues to show that the public is still supportive of yet more restrictions, even weirder rationale for them and even harsher penalties. I tell myself this time people will really kick off this time and yet it comes in without a whimper.
I wouldn't take a vaccine even if they developed one and prefer the Sweden approach. Selfish am I? Well, nothing is more selfish than the £100s of Billions we are racking up in debt for the future generations to pay off and the businesses being closed and jobs lost by these failed lockdowns.
cleavers
Moderator
I watched the Dortmund v Mönchengladbach game earlier, with @ 10k fans in a 78k stadium, there was some crowd noise, but was hardly an atmosphere.
It was reasonable game, but it really wasn't helped by a commentator who would have put the dead to sleep to be fair.
It was reasonable game, but it really wasn't helped by a commentator who would have put the dead to sleep to be fair.
The more I watch football without fans - that is the lack of any atmosphere, emotion or spirit, the more I think the 'ordinary' old school terrace fans should be paid to go to the games. Everything that is missing in these games is added by the fan, which in turn enables the Premier League to sell big to the TV companies who in turn sell big all over the world. Without us fans they have no product.
yeseye
Well-Known Member
Here’s a Template Letter for anyone interested .
Dear Khaldoon,
I would like 5 grand per game I attend or I won’t be coming anymore !
Kind Regards,
No 1 Fan.
Don't sell yourself short.
kaz7
Well-Known Member
when brighton did their trial the other week you didn' t have to wear a mask whilst in your seat ,this is people get frustrated with the rules ,you shout and sing and spit over everyone during the game ,just when you should wear a mask ! I just don't get it
I think the thinking is that you don’t need to be permanently 2m away from people outside. You are highly unlikely to catch Covid from walking past people on the pavement for example. Presumably that is why it is acceptable to be able to walk past everyone in your row to go to the toilet.
Also assume thinking is if someone splutters Covid on you from behind it’s on your back/in your hair rather than your face and not likely to enter your system.
it’s the getting in and out of your seatbefore and after games andgettinginto the ground that seem like the hard to work out bits. Particularly at the end. Will people all try and leave at the same time. People on trains still seem to be converging by the doors when approaching the destination ignoring the distancing guidance.
Also assume thinking is if someone splutters Covid on you from behind it’s on your back/in your hair rather than your face and not likely to enter your system.
it’s the getting in and out of your seatbefore and after games andgettinginto the ground that seem like the hard to work out bits. Particularly at the end. Will people all try and leave at the same time. People on trains still seem to be converging by the doors when approaching the destination ignoring the distancing guidance.
Pezzer2
Well-Known Member
I'm working away in Colchester and had the Bolton Team staying in my hotel at the weekend. Got chatting to a few in the gym. Midfielder called Tom White and the assistant manager Pete Atherton (Remember him playing for Wednesday in the 90's) both said its an absolute nightmare without fans, hard to get the tempo going without the fans pushing you on. I know its obvious but interesting to hear it from the players and coaches. Oh and the Bolton physio she is an absolute stunner !!