RIP Pele (p9)

jimharri said:
Forget Ronaldo, forget Messi, forget Maradona, forget Cruyff, forget Lee Bradbury, Pele is and was the "GOAT".
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I remember the early days of the Pele or Maradona "debate". Anybody who has spoken with people of older generations (not just fans, but people who have played the game, coaches etc) will confirm that in the beginning they actually didn't take it seriously (the "debate" I mean). When they did realise that the media were indeed making this an issue, they just couldn't believe it. Not going to mention names, but I do remember one of them (well known, had a career till early 70s) saying to me: "If we emphasize on technical ability (referring to Maradona), why not Garrincha? Why not Eusebio? Why not so many others?"

In their minds, such a "debate" never existed, they considered it totally ridiculous (and a product of sheer ignorance). And by the way, after Pele, they would mention names such as Di Stefano, Puskas etc. We are talking about different standards. We are also talking about a completely different understanding of the game...

There is no point talking about his numbers and achievements, they are literally out of this world. Messi wins the WC just before retiring (having already failed repeatedly numerous times), Pele achieved this in 1958 (Sweden), putting Brazil and their jogo bonito on the map. He was 16-17 years old. Winner in 1962 (even though he didn't play much due to injury, but Garrincha did shine in Chile), winner also in 1970 with a team that has become a myth (and rightly so). The influence this man and the football culture of his country had in the evolution of the game, cannot easily be described with words. Football is the most popular sport globally, a reality significantly associated with Pele's and Brazil's impact...

All the names (as well as others) mentioned in your post deserve respect. But Pele is clearly ahead of them. I would strongly recomment to fans to watch matches with him playing. Not highlights. Full matches. You can find all Brazil's matches from the 1970 WC in Mexico, for example (and more). I promise you, it will be an experience. Most probably you will then reach the same conclusion with people like Cruyff, Beckenbauer etc: Pele was by far the most complete player ever (the words they used to express themselves when talking about him), therefore the best ever. The guy was God's creation, he had literally everything -and excelled in every single attribute. Above all, a player with the strategic mind of a general. We are talking about a unique understanding of the game. Throughout the 90', he would position himself and act according to what his team needed every single fucking moment. All elements of his game and decision making, movement, actions, tempo etc, somehow make sense. They seem correct. They also seem very natural and effortless...

Sad fucking day. A giant is no longer with us. But his legacy will live forever. RIP.
 
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Kinkladze's crazy skills said:
I used to think Pele was overrated in my younger more ignorant days, with loads of people slagging him for completely different reasons, I've come to realise he's actually nowadays especially from younger people very underrated.
One thing people don't get is Pele was always an attacking midfield playmaker type first and foremost, not a striker and even at the start of his career he played as an attacking midfielder.
Pele was a great tackler of the ball and once made over 10 tackles in one World Cup game in 1962 helping out defensively so just think about that, when do you see that? It's even rare for a defensive player but from an attacking player to put that kind of shift in it beggars belief beyond phenomenal... As a player in an advanced role further up the pitch you don't make 10 tackles in any match, let alone a World Cup match as an attacking player if you aren't at least considered the greatest, although Garrincha was the star in 1962 which people point out in Pele's absence, it was still always Pele who stood out above everyone else when he took to the football field.

(This whole vid is aspects of just his first World Cup game against Mexico in 1962 compared to other players, he's compared with Patrick Vieira from an amazing display I vaguely remember in the Euros I think.
A lot believe 1962 due to his amazingly bright start would've been Pele's best World Cup without question if not for injury, vid will start from 6:30 minutes just to show the tackles section and will show you just how deep he generally played)


Creatively he's probably the most creative player in history many teammates have testified he created as many chances as ones he had to score, because as I said earlier Pele's real position wasn't actually an outright striker.
Pele played between the lines of midfield and attack in a position quite similar to David Silva from the very start of his career, he played left of centre in attacking midfield area like Dave or Iniesta for Barca.
That's despite the popular opinion he only played deep late in his career, he just lost a lot of his famous energy later on in his career, so with that loss of energy it became more apparent him pulling the strings from deep, but he used to run up and down the pitch with fierce energy similar to what fellow blues say about Colin "The King" Bell, he'd rarely come off the pitch knackered due to his crazy energy levels, which is what gave the illusion of him being a striker with his late runs into the box and goal numbers.
If you watch goal or skill compilations involving Pele he is usually running from deep a lot and from a David Silva/Iniesta type positions, historically before Pele the number 10 in Brazil was given to the attacking midfield playmaker not wing forwards or strikers.

He was a very physical player despite his diminutive stature, very strong and sturdy for his size which lead to him being violently fouled.
Pele was also great in the air too when people go on about Tim Cahill's kangaroo jump, people don't realise Pele had an extraordinary leap of his own that lead to many headed goals in his career.
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He is probably the most savagely fouled player in history and likely played most of his career with minor injuries yet still displayed greatness, stick Messi and Cristiano into the brutal era's where Pele Maradona Cruyff and many other skillful geniuses faced brutes getting away with assault, then both these greats from the current era would probably still do very well but would've had far more injuries and far fewer goals.
(Pele being fouled compilation)
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This is a post I made about Pele on an earlier thread.

It appears YouTube have deleted the video at the top showing Pele making 11 tackles in 1 World Cup match which I honestly can't understand, find it hard to believe the uploader would delete this video and his entire Pele based channel.

Something else people don't understand is the state of the pitches he played on, he still matches anyone these days in compilations for skill so imagine how good he'd look on today's pristine pitches... Remember the spurs away game a couple years back on the Wembley turf? When the pitch been ripped up badly ripped up by (American Football) Gridiron I mean, both us and spurs looked terrible that day and a lot of blues commented on it but the reality is the pitch made both teams look bad.
 
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