Rodrigo Hernandez - Atletico confirm deal - p192

[Fast Forward To The Past]

I don't doubt that he would be better at City, but his constant positional absence & lack of strength is as bad or worse than Gundogan's worst City performances.

Imo, 'the press' is not a defence, it's an aid to defending. We still have to defend. And when we don't do that properly, against decent teams in particular, is when we get beat.

I recon, in such a tight race for the title, he would almost certainly have cost us the league, by dropping a few big mistakes & imo so would Gundogan if he played at 6 for a full season. Most of the bollocks Jorginho dropped, would be covered up, as are Gundo's, & we would still win, but there would be occasions where the opposition cashed in. And also the moments where defenders go missing & Fernandinho steps in, like the first part of the game at the swamp,would not happen, so we lose out in two areas.

We need a new player at the club, with at least 'some' defensive ability, imo, who Pep can teach to be a replacement for Fernandinho.

In a lot of the games, it doesn't matter, we win irrespective because we overwhelm the opposition at the other end, but in some, it does.

This guy looks to me, like someone who could be taught to look after the defenders, like Fern does, & still create from deep.

Fernandinho was not a def mid when we signed him, he was just about the best box to box mid in Europe & briiliant running forward with he ball. He had to wipe Yaya's arse at City, is where it all changed.

My point is that Jorginho wouldn't be dropping all those so-called big mistakes when he played for city. (Most of those "mistakes" started way in front of him and he get's put in a lose-lose situation.)
I also believe you wouldn't recognize Fernandinho when he had to play in Jorginho's role in that Chelsea team. Especially towards the end of the season when even Fern's confidence would be shot.
They are very different players that would fill that role in a very different way and I don't think Pep looks at that position as Defensive mid in the classical sense.
Fern is a hybrid. Jorginho more of a pure playmaker. (Even more so than Gundo.)

In any case, Jorginho would be a much stronger player in 1-on-1 situations after a season under Pep.
Despite the air of frivolous, technical football, if there is one thing that Pep does better than anybody it is turning apparently weak technical players into warriors.
As of right now, We are fielding a team of weak looking midgets that are winning most of their direct physical battles on the pitch. This is not a coincidence.

As for pressing... You can call it an "aid" but the press is the most important part of defending for a team that plays possession style football high up the pitch.
It means that opposition teams attack you in a disorginized fashion.
It's probably the main reason why things go brilliant for us and horrible for Chelsea. (they have a very talented squad, if somewhat unbalanced)
An opposing team that is organised in transition is a horror to defend for everybody.
This is what Jorginho faces more often than not and he is not a defensive player in the first place. (see my previous post)

We will all have our opinions but I truly believe that Pep would never drop the ball on a playmaker like that.
When we faced him with Napoli he was a very different player. And despite our size we have one of the most tenacious midfields when it comes to harrassing and pressing DM's or deep lying playmakers.

He may not be playing as well as he should but pundit's are constantly mis-analizing the Jorginho "Highlights" to the point of idiocy IMO.
And I think they are doing it on purpose because they went with the idea that Kante should play there and are now forced to double down on that stupid notion.

It's all academic now because we didn't sign.
Rodrigo looks a top talent.

 

[Cozmo Bozo]

I also believe you wouldn't recognize Fernandinho when he had to play in Jorginho's role in that Chelsea team. Especially towards the end of the season when even Fern's confidence would be shot.

Yep, just watch Fern's horror shows for Brazil.

 

[Dax777]

This is a very unpopular opinion these days but...
Jorginho is a top player that is made to look much much worse than he is in this current Chelsea team.
If you play that kind of football and your front line fails to press properly then your Pivot will be exposed. Badly.
Yes... He's not strong when it comes to physical 1-on-1 situations but he's constantly put into positions that would even leave Fernandinho wanting.
If the press does it's job then a smart player can be very effective defensively without getting caught up in physical battles.
Because the opposition often comes at him in an organised fashion he can't compensate for his weaknesses. Which almost every player of his type has to do.
Maybe we dodged a bullet. I don't deny this.
But he would look like a completely different player in this city team IMO.
And he would probably have grown instead of becoming the low confidence mess he is now. His loss.

We didn't. He'll have been fantastic here. But his loss.

 

[oldius]

This seems to be a difference in principals rather than fact. Some here like a more blood and thunder CDM while others are happy with a possession and circulation based player. I think Jorginho would have been very successful in our system, as I feel Gundogan is. Of course, if you prefer the blood and thunder type, you probably feel that the aforementioned players are disasters.

 

[Neville Kneville]

My point is that Jorginho wouldn't be dropping all those so-called big mistakes when he played for city. (Most of those "mistakes" started way in front of him and he get's put in a lose-lose situation.)
I also believe you wouldn't recognize Fernandinho when he had to play in Jorginho's role in that Chelsea team. Especially towards the end of the season when even Fern's confidence would be shot.
They are very different players that would fill that role in a very different way and I don't think Pep looks at that position as Defensive mid in the classical sense.
Fern is a hybrid. Jorginho more of a pure playmaker. (Even more so than Gundo.)

In any case, Jorginho would be a much stronger player in 1-on-1 situations after a season under Pep.
Despite the air of frivolous, technical football, if there is one thing that Pep does better than anybody it is turning apparently weak technical players into warriors.
As of right now, We are fielding a team of weak looking midgets that are winning most of their direct physical battles on the pitch. This is not a coincidence.

As for pressing... You can call it an "aid" but the press is the most important part of defending for a team that plays possession style football high up the pitch.
It means that opposition teams attack you in a disorginized fashion.
It's probably the main reason why things go brilliant for us and horrible for Chelsea. (they have a very talented squad, if somewhat unbalanced)
An opposing team that is organised in transition is a horror to defend for everybody.
This is what Jorginho faces more often than not and he is not a defensive player in the first place. (see my previous post)

We will all have our opinions but I truly believe that Pep would never drop the ball on a playmaker like that.
When we faced him with Napoli he was a very different player. And despite our size we have one of the most tenacious midfields when it comes to harrassing and pressing DM's or deep lying playmakers.

He may not be playing as well as he should but pundit's are constantly mis-analizing the Jorginho "Highlights" to the point of idiocy IMO.
And I think they are doing it on purpose because they went with the idea that Kante should play there and are now forced to double down on that stupid notion.

It's all academic now because we didn't sign.
Rodrigo looks a top talent.

The mistakes I'm referring to, are his.

Very much.

 

[Neville Kneville]

This seems to be a difference in principals rather than fact. Some here like a more blood and thunder CDM while others are happy with a possession and circulation based player. I think Jorginho would have been very successful in our system, as I feel Gundogan is. Of course, if you prefer the blood and thunder type, you probably feel that the aforementioned players are disasters.

Some want both.

As in Fernandinho.

This guy might be someone who can do that.

 

[Dax777]

Some want both.

As in Fernandinho.

This guy might be someone who can do that.

No one is all both. All players have both at differing degrees. Dihno is more tackle and thunder. Gundogan is more cycle and possession. Even Pep admits it now. Gundogan gives us our play quicker. Pep's words.

Different strokes for different folks

 

[SVP]

My point is that Jorginho wouldn't be dropping all those so-called big mistakes when he played for city. (Most of those "mistakes" started way in front of him and he get's put in a lose-lose situation.)
I also believe you wouldn't recognize Fernandinho when he had to play in Jorginho's role in that Chelsea team. Especially towards the end of the season when even Fern's confidence would be shot.
They are very different players that would fill that role in a very different way and I don't think Pep looks at that position as Defensive mid in the classical sense.
Fern is a hybrid. Jorginho more of a pure playmaker. (Even more so than Gundo.)

In any case, Jorginho would be a much stronger player in 1-on-1 situations after a season under Pep.
Despite the air of frivolous, technical football, if there is one thing that Pep does better than anybody it is turning apparently weak technical players into warriors.
As of right now, We are fielding a team of weak looking midgets that are winning most of their direct physical battles on the pitch. This is not a coincidence.

As for pressing... You can call it an "aid" but the press is the most important part of defending for a team that plays possession style football high up the pitch.
It means that opposition teams attack you in a disorginized fashion.
It's probably the main reason why things go brilliant for us and horrible for Chelsea. (they have a very talented squad, if somewhat unbalanced)
An opposing team that is organised in transition is a horror to defend for everybody.
This is what Jorginho faces more often than not and he is not a defensive player in the first place. (see my previous post)

We will all have our opinions but I truly believe that Pep would never drop the ball on a playmaker like that.
When we faced him with Napoli he was a very different player. And despite our size we have one of the most tenacious midfields when it comes to harrassing and pressing DM's or deep lying playmakers.

He may not be playing as well as he should but pundit's are constantly mis-analizing the Jorginho "Highlights" to the point of idiocy IMO.
And I think they are doing it on purpose because they went with the idea that Kante should play there and are now forced to double down on that stupid notion.

It's all academic now because we didn't sign.
Rodrigo looks a top talent.

good post but less of the midgets-as a short arse myself don't like the term
Thanks

 

[Neville Kneville]

No one is all both. All players have both at differing degrees. Dihno is more tackle and thunder. Gundogan is more cycle and possession. Even Pep admits it now. Gundogan gives us our play quicker. Pep's words.

Different strokes for different folks

Gundogan is playing quicker there, at the moment, but not for most of his City career, where he's often been too slow & uninspired.

Fern is half fit & knackered & nowhere near his best.

However, the best little dinked pass over the top that Gundogan plays, was played by Fernandinho, 1st half, at the swamp, when Raheem failed to control it, for what should have been the 1st goal. In the same half, he produced the most crucial bit of defending in the half, stopping a certain goal from rag's free kick & went off after producing the best piece of defending 2nd half, stopping Pogba from scoring. Whilst unfit.

He is two players & worth far more than Gundogan or similar could ever be.

Pep will replace him with as similar as possible. Others can play there when the game suits it, maybe even KDB who is quicker & better defensively than Gundogan when fit.

This guy could be the one, if he can adapt to the Prem.

 

[Fast Forward To The Past]

Gundogan is playing quicker there, at the moment, but not for most of his City career, where he's often been too slow & uninspired.

Fern is half fit & knackered & nowhere near his best.

However, the best little dinked pass over the top that Gundogan plays, was played by Fernandinho, 1st half, at the swamp, when Raheem failed to control it, for what should have been the 1st goal. In the same half, he produced the most crucial bit of defending in the half, stopping a certain goal from rag's free kick & went off after producing the best piece of defending 2nd half, stopping Pogba from scoring. Whilst unfit.

He is two players & worth far more than Gundogan or similar could ever be.

Pep will replace him with as similar as possible. Others can play there when the game suits it, maybe even KDB who is quicker & better defensively than Gundogan when fit.

This guy could be the one, if he can adapt to the Prem.

A player with fernandinho's repertoire is even harder to find than a top playmaker. (Is there even a similar player out there at this level?)
Instead of repacing likes per like we will probably look for a more typical playmaker first. Simply because a typical DM is a liability in Pep's system.
If he has defensive attributes than that's a bonus. This Rodrigo fellow looks very good to me in any case.

Whoever we get and whatever his skillset, Pep will instill a fighting spirit in him.
For some reason that seems to be more than enough for us to function against even the most physical opposition.