Rony Lopes

[Neville Kneville]

The 'laughing stock' bit to answer your first point.

To address your second point. We have one possibly two if we don't include Nacho even close to the first team standard. One, Lopes who in my opinion isn't good enough. The second Denayer has just signed a five year deal and we are looking to offer him to top clubs on loan. I know you don't agree with this, but he is too young yet for City. 20 years and 2 months 99 times out of a 100 is too young for centre backs anywhere, let alone centre back in a team looking for PL & CL glory.

And your 3rd, as much as I admire Viera, I believe in Txiki more.

Point 4, I agree, blooding any youth will be very hard at the moment. Pressure to succed is so great. Hence us or the CFA needing a few years to start to deliver, just as we have been told by the powers that be. In 2-3 years time, hopefully with another title or two, a couple of good runs in the CL will help relieve the pressure to succed, couple this with hopefully a better quality and more choice from the CFA.

Believe me if you like, or don't but I have it first hand from a first team member that the players, the staff have all pretty much identified Angelino as the first player they expect to really challenge for a first team spot. For the record he also said Nacho is far and away better than any 18 year old they seen. I'm not an ITK, I've never been given any transfer info, nor would I ask, some info is just volunteered, how highly Angelino is rated is that info.

As you say, we now have a bunch of players ready to challenge, so surely as just one as gone or looks to be going, is it not a bit early to be labelling anything a laughing stock.

If one of the projected 'first batch' don't make it, in my opinion it's still too early to flap.

I expect most not to make it at City, as that's what happens these days in football. But I would expect all who deserve it, to get an opportunity to make it. That's what isn't happening.

I'm not sure Lopes is good enough. He has loads of talent but he may lack the smartness required to make it work. I'd guess he won't, at our level. 'Guess'.

The point is, that I may be wrong, & I may be wrong in a really enormous, hilariously stupid way, because he has absolutely loads of talent.

If City, do get that judgement so badly wrong, then it will actually be a 'laughing stock' situation or a 'Pogba'. Ferguson fucking that one up is a sign of how Utd have plummeted as a club in that area. We don't want to emulate them. But it also shows how these 'experts' have basically no idea. The way they find out, is when the kids actually start to play in the first team environment. All the rest is just guesswork, same as I'm doing. If you were to go through all the famous players & coaches & read their pronouncements on players who will make the grade, & those who won't, they haven't got a fucking scooby, none of them. Lopes should have got much more of a chance than he has, for that reason. He may turn out nothing, he may turn out world class. I don't know, but neither do they. They just pretend to.

Yopu can spot talent but you can't guarantee whether that talent will come through at senior level. You find out, by playing them at that level, over time.

As for Angelino being a better prospect & closer to the first team than anyone else. He is a cracking footballer but he's absolutely nowhere near it as a fullback right now. Perhaps they expect he will suddenly fill out, then that would change things a lot of course. Or change his position. I would say Maffeo is currently way ahead of him as a fullback & Denayer would be way ahead of both if he was used in that position. I think Denayer would end the season as first choice if he played fullback. He is a better defender 1v1 than anyone i the first team squad imo, & has proved it v top opposition. If I had to bet my life on someone stopping a tricky winger, I'd bet it on Jason, ahead of the other two, in a heartbeat.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Pellegrini has to keep the squad happy. If everyone is fit and he keeps the same team as at present, he'll have the likes of Caballero, Clichy, Zaba, MD, Otamendi, Fernando, Delph, Nasri, KDB (probably) and Bony all wanting a place in the starting line up or at least on the bench. Some are going to miss out anyway but if he sticks a couple of younger players on the bench/pitch instead of quality, tried and tested international players, it's likely to lead to discontent amongst the senior players. We'll need some of those players to step up during the season to cover for injuries and suspensions but how are they supposed to do that if they haven't had any match time?

I keep reading that we can put a couple on the bench and bring them on when we're 4-0 up or similar but what if it's a tight game and Pellegrini needs to bring on someone to change things but can't because he doesn't have that player on the bench? I also don't think giving young players a few minutes in games we are winning comfortably would be that useful as we tend to take our foot off the pedal at that stage anyway. They'd be better served playing regularly on loan somewhere.

Pellegrini no doubt sees those players day in and day out in training and knows if they are ready or not, or even likely to make the grade. Our academy lads are just going to have to be patient and hopefully pick up a few opportunities here and there. If they don't believe that they are good enough for our team, then it would be best for all if they moved on. If they do believe they are good enough but not yet quite ready, they should do as Denayer has done and sign and new contract and get a couple of seasons on loan under their belts and then wait for their chance. If they're good enough, they'll make it.

No they won't necessarily, at City. Not if we don't give them the kind of chances you are mentioning above. 'What if it's a close game' ? Yeah well we bring on 3 players, one or two being someone who doesn't necessarily improve things, but is older. Sometimes it works, sometimes it's worse. But we are 'keeping someone happy'. because we are using them, whether they improve it or not. Because it's perhaps safer to gamble on an older, maybe stale/disgruntled player, than to have one or two of the many subs' places used for a kid.

That's exactly the problem.

 

[mosssideblue]

I don't understand the first part of the question re what's happening, but Denayer & Lopes not being used at first team level, at all, even given a chance to force their way in, is what I mean 'is happening' not behind 'closed doors' right in front of us.

How do I judge the standard ? Through watching players development over many years & comparing the standard reached by players of varying ability compared to what City have currently . Some of this group will make it to a decent level. Some may make it all the way. Some may be world class stars. Neither myself, nor Pellegrini nor Vieira know that as an exact science. If they were to tell you they do, they would be lying, as would I, it's all about opinion.

What I do know, is that based on all the years I've been watching youth/kids football, City have assembled a group with some fantastic potential. Many may slip by without taking the chance, but if none of them make it, we have fucked up royally, as at least a few should, there are just too many, for all to fail.

Your opinion is that you say (believe) they are ready, and those who work with them day in day say otherwise, my opinion, is that the club knows best.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Your opinion is that you say (believe) they are ready, and those who work with them day in day say otherwise, my opinion, is that the club knows best.

No it isn't.

My opinion is that they are ready to be given a chance to start to learn to become first team players, which is an entirely different thing. And I don't believe that you know for sure that the coaches at City would be against some of those kids getting a bit of game time in the Premier League.

 

[mosssideblue]

No it isn't.

My opinion is that they are ready to be given a chance to start to learn to become first team players, which is an entirely different thing. And I don't believe that you know for sure that the coaches at City would be against some of those kids getting a bit of game time in the Premier League.

I'll rephrase.

You believe they are ready to be given a chance, and my opinion is that others who are better qualified than you or I believe differently. Your right though, I do not know whether any of the youth coaches would be against them getting that chance, but neither do you know for sure they havn't said there not ready yet.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I'll rephrase.

You believe they are ready to be given a chance, and my opinion is that others who are better qualified than you or I believe differently. Your right though, I do not know whether any of the youth coaches would be against them getting that chance, but neither do you know for sure they havn't said there not ready yet.

No I don't know that. but based on years of watching football at that level, & looking at the standard of our kids & seeing how other clubs operate, I'm happy to go with Pellegrini as being the one making the decisions, not Vieira, Wilcox & 100% definitely not Brian Kidd.

I think it's the manager protecting his own arse first & foremost.

 

[Damocles]

I can only believe that you've not watched the youth teams if you really think that, there are some supremely talented youngsters in there.

And Denayer and Lopes were the best of the lot

 

[mosssideblue]

No I don't know that. but based on years of watching football at that level, & looking at the standard of our kids & seeing how other clubs operate, I'm happy to go with Pellegrini as being the one making the decisions, not Vieira, Wilcox & 100% definitely not Brian Kidd.

I think it's the manager protecting his own arse first & foremost.

If you genuinely believe that PV is telling Pellers that these kids are now worth a punt and Pellers is saying no chance, that's your view which I respect, but don't agree with.

Seeing how other clubs operate isn't really a good metric IMO. We have world class professionals in nearly every position on the field, to break into the first City team, they will need to be something extra special, not just shining in the level they are currently operating at.

I'm also of the belief many youngsters are wiling to sign up with us knowing the education they will receive, but also knowing they are doing it for their own gains and not necesarily City's.

Many have suggested that Pellers was "advised" that 442 was not the best set up for us and so it looks like he has been forced to changed that for this season. So if others have said these kids are ready and are passionate about their assertions, why isn't he being forced to try them?

Bottom line is we do not know, so having a different view on it is here nor there.

 

[Centurions]

No defenders better players than Denayer. Some better than Lopes maybe, but he is the first cab off the rank & should have been used.

It probably didn't show very well but I only put Lopes in bold, my bad.

 

[Damocles]

If you genuinely believe that PV is telling Pellers that these kids are now worth a punt and Pellers is saying no chance, that's your view which I respect, but don't agree with.

Why, when we were 3-0 up, did Pellegrini prefer to play Scott Sinclair then a youth player who was on the bench and played the same position?

If he was on the bench already then he obviously falls under the "good enough" reasoning.