Russian invasion of Ukraine

[meltonblue]

Really? Depending on your point of view this has been building up for 21 years (9/11) or 8 years ( Crimea) or 14 years (Georgia). We had a nice peaceful period in the nineties bar the Yugoslavian conflict but this has been coming for a long time.

Ah. Well in that context, you could say it’s been brewing since Yeltsin or ultimately back to the end of the Second World War.

Even so though, we’re still a long way away from a world war.

 

[Big mals fedora]

If he can deny it was deliberate he can see if he can create a split in NATO. Everything Russia has done to energy supplies (turning off gas for example) has been to try and create fractures in the wests support for Ukraine.

He doesn’t have the stones for being upfront

Possibly. But, personally, I think it’ll take a lot, lot more to cause a split in nato. The majority of the west are rock solid in support of Ukraine.

 

[aguero93:20]

it’s been building up since WW2 really. Europe has a very long history of ethnic conflict.

Yeah I'd agree with that tbh, cold war never ended it just paused and various players switched sides from WW2.

Ah. Well in that context, you could say it’s been brewing since Yeltsin or ultimately back to the end of the Second World War.

Even so though, we’re still a long way away from a world war.

We're not really, we're just one dickhead making a stupid mistake and nobody having the balls to stop him away. Look at how WW1 kicked off.

 

[domalino]

I’m completely confident Poland and NATO can figure this out with 100% certainty.

I wouldn’t rule out Russia fucking up or pretend fucking up to gauge reaction. However, If this does turn out to be Ukrainian in origin, I have to say I think they’ve made a rare, really poor error in judgement in response to it.

Kuleba, the foreign affairs minister has come out saying its 100% Russian, anyone saying otherwise has fallen for Russian propaganda and this is now the time for Ukraine to immediately get F16’s and how this means Ukraine is part of defending NATO now.

I know and understand they are fighting for the survival of their country and have to ask for more all the time, but I really didn’t like calls for immediate escalation just minutes after it happened.

If he’s wrong, comments like that will cause a lot of PR damage in countries who are split or tentative about support or escalation and give Russia lots of propaganda ammo.

Should have stayed quiet IMO - but Christ he’s Ukraines foreign minister so maybe he does already know!

 

[Irwell]

Yeah, if they've tried to use their own mistake as a call for aid instead of just owning up to it then it will leave a bit of a sour taste. It's hard to imagine them saying that without absolute confidence it wasn't them though, and their troops on the ground seem less likely to cover things up than the Russians do.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

I’m glad I’m not in charge of such decisions because my gut right now would tell me to just roll into Ukraine with every weapon at NATO’s disposal and annihilate every Russian **** in sight, and order a CIA hit on that smarmy **** who’s been sent to the G19.

Putin would still do fuck all, because he’s a coward.

But I’m not in charge of rolling those dice.

 

[meltonblue]

Yeah I'd agree with that tbh, cold war never ended it just paused and various players switched sides from WW2.

We're not really, we're just one dickhead making a stupid mistake and nobody having the balls to stop him away. Look at how WW1 kicked off.

Right but that’s no different to plenty of points since ww2 ended. This particular scenario though, we’re a way away from nato thinking of triggering article five or a world war though.

 

[meltonblue]

I’m completely confident Poland and NATO can figure this out with 100% certainty.

I wouldn’t rule out Russia fucking up or pretend fucking up to gauge reaction. However, If this does turn out to be Ukrainian in origin, I have to say I think they’ve made a rare, really poor error in judgement in response to it.

Kuleba, the foreign affairs minister has come out saying its 100% Russian, anyone saying otherwise has fallen for Russian propaganda and this is now the time for Ukraine to immediately get F16’s and how this means Ukraine is part of defending NATO now.

I know and understand they are fighting for the survival of their country and have to ask for more all the time, but I really didn’t like calls for immediate escalation just minutes after it happened.

If he’s wrong, comments like that will cause a lot of PR damage in countries who are split or tentative about support or escalation and give Russia lots of propaganda ammo.

Should have stayed quiet IMO - but Christ he’s Ukraines foreign minister so maybe he does already know!

Agree with that fully. One of the many parts of the war Ukraine has excelled in so far is the pr and communications battle. Didn’t need to say anything about this just yet.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

I can't see how anything is going to be proved, both sides use these types of missiles.

Of course it can be proved. Just like it was proven the Russians shot down a fucking passenger jet yet too many leaders were too mard arsed to do anything about it.

Bullies need to be stood up to and kicked the shit out of. The same is true in primary school as in global politics.

 

[aguero93:20]

Right but that’s no different to plenty of points since ww2 ended. This particular scenario though, we’re a way away from nato thinking of triggering article five or a world war though.

Who said NATO would start it?