Russian invasion of Ukraine

[grunge]

49 million accounts on Twitter are bots. Thats why I don't bother with it.

Entirely depends who you follow, following verified accounts or known people is a good place to be, after that it quickly drops into insanity.

 

[SWP's back]

Tbh that's my take on it too. The Russians don't want nato on their doorstep. I don't think it's fair to say it was caused by the West or by America because the Ukrainian people democratically elected to be closer to Europe than Russia. Putin himself said (in his propaganda piece on Ukraine a couple of years ago) the people of Ukraine must decide themselves if they want to continue the historic kinship between Russia and Ukraine.

I think an analogy is Russia wanting nukes next door to America, in Cuba. It doesn't play well with the superpowers. (Though Cuba wasn't a democracy and didn't really choose to be closer to Russia)

I think Germany had accepted that world view, ie that Russia wouldn't want / allow Ukraine to be part of nato and for Russia to have the enemies nukes on their doorstep. In effect it might cause a war itself.

So the west have pushed/brought/encouraged democracy too close to Russia (in Russian eyes) and so Russia have invaded them.

So what do you think?

Since NATO was founded, Russia has NEVER NOT HAD NATO ON ITS FUCKING BORDER.

How many more people are going to ignore that and swallow Putin’s fucking lies? Russia currently has 5 one borders with NATO countries. The illegal invasion of Ukraine has NOTHING to do with NATO.

 

[Sir peace frog]

That is an excellent, though chilling article. It deserves to be read in full. Personally, I think we are living in the end times, though psychologically I have always been inclined towards negative, catastrophic thinking in the style of CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy).

My impression is that Putin behaves like a ruthless Mafia boss. Maybe I have been watching too many series like Gomorrah, but the self-destructive element suggests to me that he certainly would engulf the rest of the world in a nuclear conflagration. I think he is that far gone. Maybe he is not formally, diagnostically mad, but to me he is politically deranged (whatever that means), as he is in thrall to a combustible ideology that he would sacrifice himself and the rest of us to. And I do not think that his compatriots in the Kremlin are a sufficiently restraining influence. They are probably a bunch of ‘yes’ men and women.

Should add that I sincerely hope that I am wrong about this. My wife has been going on about mundane matters today that assume that there is a future to be had. I haven’t challenged her as English is her second language and she hasn’t been keeping up with things like I have. Maybe it’s better for her to remain oblivious.

Hope that I am making sense here. I have a problem with alcohol, am a fearful, cowardly wimp in real life, and my drinking has escalated over the last few days as I have been lying awake at night fretting about all this, so I cannot claim to be an objective commentator.

It’s simply that old axioms like ‘pressure leads to resistance’ are presently passing through my mind and I think that Putin will lash out indiscriminately if he feels boxed in.

The last thing that I would say is that if this turns out to be the end of us as a species that we have to be on the side of right. Maybe our actions are meaningless and ultimately insignificant when carved into the larger universe, but we are right to oppose this monster, even if we die in the process of doing so.

Once again, apologies. I probably should be medicated (though is there an anti-depressant that can mitigate fears about WW3 ?) and not posting here so pessimistically.

fucking hell, hahaha

 

[SWP's back]

Maybe they were. Maybe not. We won't know now.

Personally, I think a guarantee of no NATO membership for 10 years (carrot) and well articulated tangible threat of hard sanctions and how it would be much worse for Putin personally (stick) would have worked.

You can think that if you want and I could agree with you but then we’d both be wrong.

 

[BlueTG]

I know it’s been bad from day dot, but reading some of the goings on over the last twelve hours gives me a horrible feeling right through to my core.

 

[Keith Moncrieff]

Copy and paste this onto the review sections on Google for Russian restaurants

 

[SWP's back]

I’ll read through all that later, there’s a lot of propaganda on both sides at the minute.

False equivalency and he wrote a book in 1997 which Putin has since used as a play book.

 

[bluesteel]

I have, and they are nonsense.

It's academic however, because they aren't holding out for 10 days.

I’m pretty sure they’re holding out for more than 10 days.

Baseless argument? He wrote a 5000 word essay about it last year you ignorant twatbanana.

Every time you open your mouth, you take away any doubt whatsoever that you haven’t got the faintest clue what you’re talking about.

link me this essay where he says he wants to retake Latvia, Estonia, Moldova, Lithuania, Georgia etc you simpleton.

 

[BimboBob]

Are you Worsleyweb

I can only dream.

 

[andyhinch]

Since NATO was founded, Russia has NEVER NOT HAD NATO ON ITS FUCKING BORDER.

How many more people are going to ignore that and swallow Putin’s fucking lies? Russia currently has 5 one borders with NATO countries. The illegal invasion of Ukraine has NOTHING to do with NATO.

It’s like people willingly ignore facts on here at times, who’d have thought :-)