Russian invasion of Ukraine

[metalblue]

I have no issue with the UK stance on Ukraine. Wallace seems to be competent, which is a rarity these days. Clearly, he has no future in the Tory Party.

However the continual reduction of British Army numbers will bite at some point and no amount of spin about the ‘modern cyber soldier‘ is going to put boots on the ground when we most need them.

As for the strategic importance of NATO, again I would agree. But then so was EU membership given Putin is very keen on a divided and conflicted Europe.

I do agree there will be a breaking point for our armed services and technology won’t be able to bridge capability. Increasing demand and reducing funding is rarely a successful mix.

The Russians are by many accounts very good at disruption - but a bit harder to pin down. I would agree with you that for the very same reasons a fractured Europe is considered good by Russia. Brexit although can’t remotely be put at their doorstep there are questions that I’m not convinced were really answered all that well at the time.

 

[MaineDAWG2008]

Boris Johnson defends taking money from Russian oligarchs

Boris Johnson has defended taking money from Russian oligarchs and insisted there is no evidence of Moscow interfering in British politics. Amid continuing scrutiny over Downing Street’s failure to publish a parliamentary report into Russian tampering, the prime minister denied that the delay was li

www.thetimes.co.uk

Both UK & US has a history of funding rebel groups in Libya, Iraq, Syria and other places to name.

 

[metalblue]

Chinese money certainly does.

Intelligence and Security Committee Foreign involvement in the Critical National Infrastructure: The implications for national security Cm 8629 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Again this is all about companies with close political influence. Which is completely right - you can’t have companies or individuals with close foreign hostile state ties donating money. But there is zero evidence to say that’s what has happened here - and even if it were the case it has had zero impact on UK strategy towards Russia. The UK would prefer good relations with Russia I’m sure but we aren’t afraid to call them out.

Imagine you moved to France and had some spare cash you wanted to invest in a French political party - would the UK be trying to influence French strategy? No. You might well be on a personal level, but so what? it’s your money and if their policies resonate with you than you’re free to support them. I do appreciate it’s not exactly comparable as when it comes to some regimes like Russia or China the reach of state is somewhat greater and our lot couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery - oh wait this lot probably could just about do that!!

 

[mexico1970]

And this is why being in NATO and a very active contributor is strategically important to the UK.

No one in their right mind would suggest we go and fight the Russians on our own. But as @SWP's back rightly points out if we stuck just 100 UK troops on the front line - particularly if it was a NATO sanctioned deployment- it would make the Russians battle plans a lot more complex and way beyond the actually military might that 100 troops would bring. Not that I would suggest we should do either, as that’s one miscalculation away from a big mess.

If we as a country went all North Korea and mobilised troops in the hundreds of thousands the same people would complain about being warmongers etc, we are part of NATO we have become a cog in the machinery of a defence alliance and I for one am happy with that.

God help those who would end up being conscripted if it did kick off, those internet cafes and fancy wine bars would go out of business ;)

 

[mat]

If we as a country went all North Korea and mobilised troops in the hundreds of thousands the same people would complain about being warmongers etc, we are part of NATO we have become a cog in the machinery of a defence alliance and I for one am happy with that.

God help those who would end up being conscripted if it did kick off, those internet cafes and fancy wine bars would go out of business ;)

"Top Knot Battalion assemble!"

"Can I wear my go pro during the battle?"

"Will any dairy free options be allowed in the mess?"

"Can I livestream our secret briefings through my you tube channel?"

 

[mexico1970]

"Top Knot Battalion assemble!"

"Can I wear my go pro during the battle?"

"Will any dairy free options be allowed in the mess?"

"Can I livestream our secret briefings through my you tube channel?"

I used to be like GI Joe when I wore the uniform.

Godfrey would be more like the state of me now, if they call me up they had better do it before I fall asleep after a good meal :)

 

[The perfect fumble]

I found this interesting....

 

[knuckles]

"Top Knot Battalion assemble!"

"Can I wear my go pro during the battle?"

"Will any dairy free options be allowed in the mess?"

"Can I livestream our secret briefings through my you tube channel?"

Don't forget the safe space if it all gets a bit to much

 

[BobKowalski]

‘Elysée source on N4 meeting : "a difficult meeting, which led to a positive result" ( = a joint statement, for the first time in 2 years) and "signals Russian re-engagement" in the N4 process.

Normandy meeting in Paris has re-confirmed ceasefire, and decided to meet again in Berlin in two weeks and resolve issues related to different interpretations of the Minsk agreements.‘ @Le Monde

‘US/NATO listened to #Russian concerns, then responded with concerns of their own. One of note: Russia should withdraw its forces from #Ukraine, #Georgia, and #Moldova.’ @illrussia

Early days, but not a bad start.

 

[yankblue]

Clearly, the UK/US/NATO countries are not going to war with Russia. It's not going to happen. That's not good for anybody. And both sides know it. We're just in the Cold War part II right now.

For that reason alone, I do not think the Russians will invade. I also do not fully understand what they want, though, because they also know they're not going to invade at this point.

I know I'm oversimplifying things at this point but I wish Western leadership would stop fucking around and appeasing. Put a few thousand troops in Ukraine. That'll stop any threat of invasion. Or just put the sanctions on. But stop letting Putin push further and further.