Saudi Sovereign fund

[Constantine]

Getting a little much for the thread now, so I will leave the last comment to you, but don't put words in my mouth (second time). Of course I don't think the Saudi league will collapse after they hold a world cup. I am sure it will continue nicely with a large proportion of foreign players, largely Brazilian C list players like at the moment, maybe with many talented Saudi players coming through. I hope so for them. But you must see there has been a huge change in the last year, starting with Ronaldo. They are investing huge amounts of money NOW in player contracts and I can't see any other reason for it than WC related PR.

Anyway, I am done. Have a great day.

Indeed.

 

[kerem gokmen]

Why should UEFA intervene between an Asian entity and a South American player?

good morning,
we discussed it a lot yesterday. i am sending you those posts via dm.
cheers

 

[paska]

What would happen say if, in 5-10 years, the Saudi league applied to participate in the ‘European’ competitions?

They’d have to be comfortable having fixtures against fellow semitic clubs such as Maccabi Tel Aviv, and Hapoel Haifa.

But, Uefa wouldn’t go for it anyway. There’s no cultural, political, or geographical basis for membership. Israel were accepted into Uefa because Afc clubs were refusing to fulfil any fixture involving Israel.

 

[Gabriel]

But, Uefa wouldn’t go for it anyway. There’s no cultural, political, or geographical basis for membership. Israel were accepted into Uefa because Afc clubs were refusing to fulfil any fixture involving Israel.

You're probably right. I was just looking further down the line and envisioning what might evolve.

 

[paska]

it should be disqualified. but they ll try to find a way (accountingwise) (turkish clubs, esp fenerbahce, also gala did lots of accounting tricks to avoid FFP, and they did well, it is easy-they have contacts, president of FB is one of main sponsors of champions league etc-etc).... uefa is so shitty. anything may happen. thats what i am afraid of....

No, it shouldn’t. You should be allowed to spend your money. You won’t find too much sympathy for this here.

You’ve tried to suggest the Saudi clubs “don’t have history or fans”, accusations levelled at our club by know-nout journalists since 2008, and those accusations are just as bogus as the ones pointed towards us.

Al-Ittihad began play in 1925. They have higher average attendance than Chelsea and Juve.

Al-Nassr, who signed Ronaldo to wide fanfare, and also David Ospina to seemingly little fanfare, began play in 1955. Won the Asian Cup Winners Cup in 1998 as well as the Asian Super Cup. First club to win the Fair Play award in the Club World Cup in 2000.

Is a fan from Riyadh less important than a fan from Rusholme? Where on this sliding scale of fan-validity does a fan from Resadiye sit?

It’s either okay for clubs to trade players using money, or it isn’t. There’s no difference between HH Sheikh Mansour’s money, and HH Prince Mohammed’s money… just as there is no difference between HH Sheikh Mansour’s money and John Henry’s money, or Farhad Moshiri’s money, Joel Glazer’s money, David Sullivan’s money, Daniel Kretinsky’s money, Steve Parish’s money, Matthew Benham’s money, Massimo Cellino’s money, Vincent Tan’s money, Tony Bloom’s money, Stan Kroenke’s money, Wes Eden’s money, Daniel Levy’s money, Shahid Khan’s money, Andrea Radrizani’s money, Ryan Reynold’s money, or Simon Jordan’s two bob.

Money didn't become a new or rogue factor in 2022, 2008, 2003, or even 1992. It has shaped the game since the advent of professionalism, and if we want to follow the amateur game we’re welcome to, but otherwise, protesting about x, y, z clubs or individuals spending their own money how they please will get us nowhere.

At an absolute ceiling, the most restrictive policies you can enforce are various forms of FFP, or a Salary Cap or Transfer Cap. Transfer Caps have never taken off in any league, Salary Caps have been implemented to some success in a few leagues, where they make for more national competition at the expense of less international competition. It would be up to the Afc and each individual league to make those decisions.

IF, Afc decide to implement some form of FFP in Asia, I can only hope for their competition it isn’t as anti-competitive and corrupt as the version that Uefa decided to implement in Europe.

 

[paska]

Lee supports Stockport also, i met him in istanul (from the forum) :)))

you are right. i dont know. but there should be criterias.

manipulating the transfer market means, just like manupulating the stock market...
apple stock is at the moment USD 184... if you try to buy apple stock this monday for 300 USD, and many shares of stocks, lets say you wanna buy USD 100mio of apple share from USD 300/share. that is manipulation, it is not allowed. you are playing with market dynamics... you ll get banned from stock market.
ok, if you wanna give icardi for example (his wage in PSG is around 10 mio EUR/yearly).
if saudis offer him, 20 mio EUR. that is harming the football industry.... you should explain in financial markets (to regulatar bodies like SEC or FCA UK): ''why are you paying that amount? what are your projections? will icardi generate your club that much cash flow in future? no he will not. if he will, ok, pay him''.
but when saudis pay icardi 20 mio EUR then, then all the similar player will demand wages of around that amount. what will happen? the clubs who want to compete will increase the wages, but where will the money come from? they will increase the price of season tickets, tv subscription prices will increase, then the beer prices will increase in pubs, since pubs should make a profit. that will fuck the whole market...

also creating a monopoly is illegal (microsoft cases). if saudis try to buy all the player, they are creating a monopoly.

there are limitations and regulations in finace. (microsoft - blizzard case is a recent one, i wrote a post about it this morning).

i dont know which criterias should come. very complicated subject.

i love the quote of milton freedmon (nobel price winner in economics) ''we have been sailing in unchareterd waters, and it has been taking time to find the safest route''

football industry is sailing in unchartered waters since bosman... i dont know the safest route...

cheers

Even in the stock market, that would only be stock manipulation if those stocks were bought with the primary purpose to affect another specific stock where the buying party has either a conflicting relationship, or insider information.

Simply outpaying those with less money isn’t in and of itself market manipulation, that’s simply market competition, whether the business is Sports Entertainment (the business football clubs are in), fizzy pop, ink cartridges, fashion, cars, mortgages, property, antiques, art, NFTs, or even stocks & shares.

Monopolies are not always illegal either. Monopoly law is complex, and doesn’t apply to every industry, or even apply at all in some territories. State enterprises aren’t usually considered to be against local monopoly laws, for the reason you might expect. In the Saudi case, these are very much state enterprises.

State Enterprises are however something that the football authorities, different from political authorities, have decided in recent times they’re not very keen on, although at this time that’s mostly just in Europe. If the Afc decided the same thing, it would have huge ripples in the more Southeastern leagues such as Thailand, Brunei, etc, where you find a lot of police, army, civil service teams that compete in the league.

 

[mac]

Marc Vivien Foe amongst others would have said it's not a good idea.
Sports like football are meant to be played in a cool climate.
Go back to the world cup in Mexico, bobby charlton struggled and had to come off because he was being adversely affected by the sun.
The brilliant Brazilian team (who would have been used to playing in those conditions) were less affected, but even they were playing walking football for long spells in games.

The ticket tout was fucked because of his comb over.

 

[aguero93:20]

Why should UEFA intervene between an Asian entity and a South American player?

I'm still struggling with that part myself.

 

[Ithryn Luin]

No, it shouldn’t. You should be allowed to spend your money. You won’t find too much sympathy for this here.

You’ve tried to suggest the Saudi clubs “don’t have history or fans”, accusations levelled at our club by know-nout journalists since 2008, and those accusations are just as bogus as the ones pointed towards us.

Al-Ittihad began play in 1925. They have higher average attendance than Chelsea and Juve.

Al-Nassr, who signed Ronaldo to wide fanfare, and also David Ospina to seemingly little fanfare, began play in 1955. Won the Asian Cup Winners Cup in 1998 as well as the Asian Super Cup. First club to win the Fair Play award in the Club World Cup in 2000.

Is a fan from Riyadh less important than a fan from Rusholme? Where on this sliding scale of fan-validity does a fan from Resadiye sit?

It’s either okay for clubs to trade players using money, or it isn’t. There’s no difference between HH Sheikh Mansour’s money, and HH Prince Mohammed’s money… just as there is no difference between HH Sheikh Mansour’s money and John Henry’s money, or Farhad Moshiri’s money, Joel Glazer’s money, David Sullivan’s money, Daniel Kretinsky’s money, Steve Parish’s money, Matthew Benham’s money, Massimo Cellino’s money, Vincent Tan’s money, Tony Bloom’s money, Stan Kroenke’s money, Wes Eden’s money, Daniel Levy’s money, Shahid Khan’s money, Andrea Radrizani’s money, Ryan Reynold’s money, or Simon Jordan’s two bob.

Money didn't become a new or rogue factor in 2022, 2008, 2003, or even 1992. It has shaped the game since the advent of professionalism, and if we want to follow the amateur game we’re welcome to, but otherwise, protesting about x, y, z clubs or individuals spending their own money how they please will get us nowhere.

At an absolute ceiling, the most restrictive policies you can enforce are various forms of FFP, or a Salary Cap or Transfer Cap. Transfer Caps have never taken off in any league, Salary Caps have been implemented to some success in a few leagues, where they make for more national competition at the expense of less international competition. It would be up to the Afc and each individual league to make those decisions.

IF, Afc decide to implement some form of FFP in Asia, I can only hope for their competition it isn’t as anti-competitive and corrupt as the version that Uefa decided to implement in Europe.

Spot on!

 

[Zabbasbeard]

no, city has a history, a deep culture... i have no problem of those clubs with a culture&history spending money.

in general, i believe the transfer market is a big bubble lately. too much black money etc....

Every club has a culture and history from the least successful to the most. Have you ever heard of Sheffield FC or Notts County?

You have a problem with other people spending money because you don't like the threat they cause to you.

I loved it when Besakshahir won the title and I love it when Galatasaray (the Man United of Turkish football) fail. You're just the same as Liverpool, Uniturd, Bayern, Real Madrid etc.

Your club and attitude is nothing like Manchester City and quite frankly I don't know what you're doing on this forum.