Saudi Sovereign fund

[I'm With Stupid]

Wait and see how many sign this summer, it may be a decent quality across the league in a matter of weeks.

If all Saudi clubs keep signing from the top 5 leagues, it will. The signing that is really making me look, is Neves today. Others may be more high profile, but you can point to their age and say it’s similar to USA or China over the last decade… but Neves is in his prime, was wanted by Barça (everyone seems to be atm!), that’s more of a sign of quality and intent than the C. Ronaldo, Kante or even Benzema signings IMO.

Shanghai signed Oscar in his prime. Kept saying that he'd be open to a move back to Europe, but ultimately he's now 31 and he's still over there and has been for 6 years. After that amount of time playing in a shit league, there's little chance he'd ever be good enough to compete at the top of European football again. There will always be some players open to a move for ridiculous money even in their prime. Meanwhile, the money soon dried up and China don't sign top players any more.

But what always happens in these cases (remember in the 2000s when Russian clubs were buying the likes of Hulk for huge money) is that there's a huge spending spree and then over time it becomes unsustainable. A league can't be sustained by having someone indefinitely pumping money into it. A individual club can, perhaps, but an entire league? And basically to sustain such ridiculous wages, they'd have to get the Saudi league to the income levels of the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga combined.

You can afford, like in America, to have the odd star and pay them huge money, but a team with one world class player isn't that interesting to watch and beyond the initial hysteria, it soon calms down. And that's when you struggle to get in the players in their prime, because they want to play with other great players, not go to America or China to try and drag a bunch of players you've never heard of to a title that no-one will care about after they retire. How many of these die-hard social media Ronaldo fans are actually tuning in to the Saudi league to watch the games? I suspect not many. Some of the teams in the league have 7000 and 8000-seater stadiums.

 

[paska]

Some of the teams in the league have 7000 and 8000-seater stadiums.

Not far off of Luton Town then! Haha

Good analysis. Could well be exactly that way.

In China it happened because of changing political visions though. In America, the domestic quality has increased and commercial side has become rather lucrative.

Inter Miami is valued at more than the bottom ten EPL teams, and it has been a struggling MLS side since it’s formation.

They will at some point have to increase the academy coaching and facilities, and maybe some of the stadiums, if they are to grow long-term.

In the short-term though, they might well just pack out their squads with high quality. That would make for a few seasons of very watchable football, it’d bring in a lot of revenue and prestige (places like Saudi don’t necesarily do everything for profit, image is another motivator).

But it’d also mean less Saudis getting into Saudi squads, which would harm the level of homegrown talent. Then again, people say that about the Premier League. Maybe being around elite players to learn from, and training under top coaches, would have a benefit to the Saudi players too.

The difference between a Saudi Rodwell and a Saudi Grealish.

 

[Magicpole]

:)) if you are a christian in a full islamic country.. no problem
if you have a muslum background and they understand that you are an atheist. it is death penalty.. really...

American evangelicals, their very own Taliban, get a hardon thinking about how Saudis deal with people who call their religion horseshit. Both a shower of dangerous, medieval, theocratic, horrible bastards. Of all the countries invaded by the west, Saudi is where they should have started if any of the utter bollocks given for war were real.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Not far off of Luton Town then! Haha

Good analysis. Could well be exactly that way.

In China it happened because of changing political visions though. In America, the domestic quality has increased and commercial side has become rather lucrative.

Inter Miami is valued at more than the bottom ten EPL teams, and it has been a struggling MLS side since it’s formation.

I think the difference is the American market is huge. And let's be honest, a lot of American clubs are being valued like tech companies, based on future potential rather than actual current revenue/profits. LA Galaxy are valued at twice the price of Crystal Palace, despite having less than half the revenues.

Saudi has a population of just 35m people. Of those, something like 40% are migrant workers, and you have to wonder how much interest they're likely to have in a local Saudi league in terms of creating this long-term football supporting culture. The US clubs are valued on the fact that they have access to a market of over 300 million largely high-income individuals and a huge existing infrastructure of sports broadcasting.

What China showed is that as long as a league is being bankrolled, it will always be subject to and reliant on the political whims of those in power.

 

[BobbyBoy]

But say, for the sake of argument, a club in Saudi paid us 200 million for Mahrez.

What could UEFA do about it? They have no jurisdiction over Saudi. If you are going to start saying that irrational payments somehow do not count as income, what happens to the money? Why are noodle sponsors in Thailand OK?

Have they paid big money for any player so far? From what I can see it's all freebies, they aren't interested in giving established clubs huge chunks of money. Like LIV golf, the aim is destabilise. Ian Poulter would have pulled down his pants for 20% of what he was offered, same Kante, Benzema and even Ronaldo probably sign for less than half what they did. These are incredibly clever people paying way over the odds, why is the big question?

This affects everyone, the actions these guys are taking feeds into the price you pay for your ticket and your TV subscription.
Every player in Europe with a contract renewal discussion is playing the Saudi card. Which is probably the idea, bankrupt the legacy clubs by having them try keep up and then bail them all out and set up an European super league with a club world cup in Saudi every 2 years.

 

[Blu3m00n91]

4 Chelsea players all on huge wages being bought by Saudi clubs where the owner has investments. Helps them massively with ffp. The whole thing stinks but it’s not City doing it so it’s fine

 

[paska]

I think the difference is the American market is huge. And let's be honest, a lot of American clubs are being valued like tech companies, based on future potential rather than actual current revenue/profits. LA Galaxy are valued at twice the price of Crystal Palace, despite having less than half the revenues.

Saudi has a population of just 35m people. Of those, something like 40% are migrant workers, and you have to wonder how much interest they're likely to have in a local Saudi league in terms of creating this long-term football supporting culture. The US clubs are valued on the fact that they have access to a market of over 300 million largely high-income individuals and a huge existing infrastructure of sports broadcasting.

What China showed is that as long as a league is being bankrolled, it will always be subject to and reliant on the political whims of those in power.

The Pro League has broadcasting deals in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Australia, the Balkans, France, Greece, Italy, Portugal, Turkiye, across South America and the Carribean, across the ‘Arab World’, India, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Brunei and others.

Al-Ittihad regularly pulls in upwards of 40,000 fans to games. That’s a clearly heavily supported football club, showing appetite for football in Saudi Arabia.

The other clubs seem to average between 5k and 18k, clearly far less popular than Al-Ittihad but as the noise around the Pro League continues you would expect that to rise somewhat, and again, it’s still currently Luton Town figures.

Saudi clubs regularly go far in the continental competitions, they were already regionally strong before state ‘encouragement’.

Most top-division clubs these days globally don’t make the majority of their income from ticketing. That is only a small part of the pie. It’s far more lucrative the marketing and product sales side, as well as advertising. Saudi, viewed as an institution, are great at marketing and advertising. They are and will shine on that front, no matter what direction the project goes.

I don’t believe that income is an immediate priority for this project, it’s about power, prestige, and status, something Saudi are more than willing to pay for in the medium-to-long term, however, if you consider that income is a priority, they do have the means to generate it through marketing, advertising, and media, and that is the game they’ve been in for a considerable time.

You will see a lot more merchandise for Pro League clubs in Saudi, than necessarily ticketed fans in stadiums. Football shirts, tee-shirts, backpacks, sunglasses, water bottles. Saudi is a typical Arabian market where this stuff just does very well.

There has always been Saudi interest in the EPL and the European game. Saudi has a football culture already. That doesn’t need building. It’s more a case of converting the chunk of football interest in Saudi that is focused abroad, into Pro League interest.

 

[Constantine]

I think the difference is the American market is huge. And let's be honest, a lot of American clubs are being valued like tech companies, based on future potential rather than actual current revenue/profits. LA Galaxy are valued at twice the price of Crystal Palace, despite having less than half the revenues.

Saudi has a population of just 35m people. Of those, something like 40% are migrant workers, and you have to wonder how much interest they're likely to have in a local Saudi league in terms of creating this long-term football supporting culture. The US clubs are valued on the fact that they have access to a market of over 300 million largely high-income individuals and a huge existing infrastructure of sports broadcasting.

What China showed is that as long as a league is being bankrolled, it will always be subject to and reliant on the political whims of those in power.

Over 300 million largely high-income individuals in the US? ... hmm ... the whole US population (including babies) was 330 million in 2021. I have family in the US who wouldn't describe themselves as high-earners.

 

[paska]

4 Chelsea players all on huge wages being bought by Saudi clubs where the owner has investments. Helps them massively with ffp. The whole thing stinks but it’s not City doing it so it’s fine

Does Boehly have investments in the Saudi market then? Or one of the other partners? Wyss? Eghbali? Feliciano? Goldstein?

 

[paska]

Over 300 million largely high-income individuals in the US? ... hmm ... the whole US population (including babies) was 330 million in 2021. I have family in the US who wouldn't describe themselves as high-earners.

Indeed. A large proportion of that number are living out of trailers, camps, and raggedy social housing that makes our social housing look like royal palaces.

Those with secure living arrangements often are still often paycheck to paycheck, and god forbid a family member ever falls ill, that alone is cause for a lifetime of crippling debt.