Scholes, ITV disgrace

Shirley said:
He is trying to justify his critiscm of the City fans.

Sorry cant copy the article.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/paul-scholes-column-fans-need-to-intimidate-opponents--manchester-city-supporters-arent-doing-that-9771192.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 71192.html</a>



The first thing that struck me when I got to the Etihad Stadium on Tuesday night was whether the home support had even realised what an important game it was for their team against Roma.

It is a point I have made before in this column about Manchester City, and which I felt was relevant again when I was sitting in the ITV studio that evening. City’s team is capable of anything. They have the quality of players to win the Champions League, although they did not play well against Roma. One of the problems they have is a lack of atmosphere on European nights, when the crowd should play a big part.

The Champions League is a competition in which you have to win your home games. It is true that some of those lower-profile group matches I played in at Manchester United were in front of a more subdued Old Trafford, but that was never the case when the team needed to win. It is the same at Anfield, and it was like that at Elland Road too when Leeds United were in the competition 14 years ago. The supporters came through for them.

On Tuesday it got closer and closer to kick-off and I waited for the stadium to come alive. It never happened. There were empty seats, some 8,000 below capacity – and I accept that watching football is an expensive business. But I found it hard to understand why even those who were there did not seem to grasp the reality that City had to beat Roma.

The relationship between a team and a home crowd is crucial. The performance lifts the crowd, but in turn the players need that encouragement from the support to get them going. I was no different as a player. Appealing to the crowd for more noise, or exuberant goal celebrations were not my thing. But just because I did not show that emotion did not mean I was not responding to the atmosphere.

We went to San Siro in 2007 for a semi-final second leg against Milan, losing 3-0 on the night and 5-3 on aggregate. I will always remember Rino Gattuso at the start of the game running out and exhorting the home crowd to make more noise. He burst out on to the pitch like one of those NFL players who run through a paper banner when they come out of the tunnel. The atmosphere went up a few notches and he responded by having a great game, particularly in the way he handled Cristiano Ronaldo.

The atmosphere at places like Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Real Madrid was always the same. When United arrived they tried to make it as intimidating as possible and one of the features of the game we would discuss beforehand was trying to keep the ball in the early stages to quieten the home crowd.

At home, your support have to make it intimidating. On Tuesday night it was as if the home fans weren’t really bothered. I have wondered in the past if the City fans are still admiring the famous names who are now playing at their ground, rather than trying to make it a difficult place to visit.

I think City have big problems in Group E. Roma are a good team, as good as Bayern Munich this season. The old Uefa seeding system has given City a hard group but I can remember the 1998-99 season when United had Barcelona and Bayern Munich in our group. You just have to find a way to progress.

Like a lot of European teams, Roma operate best by controlling the midfield and that is what they did on Tuesday. By using two strikers, City played into their hands. It is obvious that in Europe, Yaya Touré cannot play in the two in front of the defence. Roberto Mancini played him further up the pitch. Sergio Aguero plays better with someone alongside him but that can create a four v two situation in the middle of midfield.

At times it was impossible for Touré and Fernandinho when Francesco Totti dropped back into midfield to add to the numbers. It was like City had never watched Roma before. Opposing teams should know what they do. When United teams played against Totti, albeit a few years ago now, we knew that Roma tried to get the ball to their captain early and play off him. We knew if you dealt with Totti then you went a long way to stopping Roma from playing.

Sometimes in Europe you have to sacrifice a part of your team. Perhaps, for instance, you have to play with just one up to increase the numbers in midfield. When Frank Lampard came on he made a difference. He was clever enough to add to the numbers in City’s midfield but he also got forward.

James Milner had an impact too when he came on. When I was still playing it seemed that when City came to Old Trafford, Milner would play. Mancini knew what he would get from him. Sometimes I think Milner suffers because he does not have a big European reputation and that means he gets left out. But he can defend and get forward. City need to find a way of winning their home games in Europe. It is a fundamental part of being successful in the Champions League.
 
Not a bad article in truth. The headline is the shit bit. But he has to go back to 1998 to find United European group as hard as any of the ones we have had for four consecutive years.
 
Hart of the matter said:
Not a bad article in truth. The headline is the shit bit. But he has to go back to 1998 to find United European group as hard as any of the ones we have had for four consecutive years.

It's dishonest.

I waited for the stadium to come alive

No he didn't, he said as much before the game on ITV and was quick to make the point that the noise was coming from the Roma fans.

To my mind that is a recognition of his own inability to be objective - that he tells lies in order to make his opinion seem more reasonable.

He's no Neville, just another Keane.

Out of interest, I wonder why ITV didn't have an ex Arsenal player talking about Spurs, or an ex Liverpool player talking about Everton?
 
Mr Ed (The Stables) said:
Shirley said:
He is trying to justify his critiscm of the City fans.

Sorry cant copy the article.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/paul-scholes-column-fans-need-to-intimidate-opponents--manchester-city-supporters-arent-doing-that-9771192.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 71192.html</a>



The first thing that struck me when I got to the Etihad Stadium on Tuesday night was whether the home support had even realised what an important game it was for their team against Roma.

It is a point I have made before in this column about Manchester City, and which I felt was relevant again when I was sitting in the ITV studio that evening. City’s team is capable of anything. They have the quality of players to win the Champions League, although they did not play well against Roma. One of the problems they have is a lack of atmosphere on European nights, when the crowd should play a big part.

The Champions League is a competition in which you have to win your home games. It is true that some of those lower-profile group matches I played in at Manchester United were in front of a more subdued Old Trafford, but that was never the case when the team needed to win. It is the same at Anfield, and it was like that at Elland Road too when Leeds United were in the competition 14 years ago. The supporters came through for them.

On Tuesday it got closer and closer to kick-off and I waited for the stadium to come alive. It never happened. There were empty seats, some 8,000 below capacity – and I accept that watching football is an expensive business. But I found it hard to understand why even those who were there did not seem to grasp the reality that City had to beat Roma.

The relationship between a team and a home crowd is crucial. The performance lifts the crowd, but in turn the players need that encouragement from the support to get them going. I was no different as a player. Appealing to the crowd for more noise, or exuberant goal celebrations were not my thing. But just because I did not show that emotion did not mean I was not responding to the atmosphere.

We went to San Siro in 2007 for a semi-final second leg against Milan, losing 3-0 on the night and 5-3 on aggregate. I will always remember Rino Gattuso at the start of the game running out and exhorting the home crowd to make more noise. He burst out on to the pitch like one of those NFL players who run through a paper banner when they come out of the tunnel. The atmosphere went up a few notches and he responded by having a great game, particularly in the way he handled Cristiano Ronaldo.

The atmosphere at places like Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Real Madrid was always the same. When United arrived they tried to make it as intimidating as possible and one of the features of the game we would discuss beforehand was trying to keep the ball in the early stages to quieten the home crowd.

At home, your support have to make it intimidating. On Tuesday night it was as if the home fans weren’t really bothered. I have wondered in the past if the City fans are still admiring the famous names who are now playing at their ground, rather than trying to make it a difficult place to visit.

I think City have big problems in Group E. Roma are a good team, as good as Bayern Munich this season. The old Uefa seeding system has given City a hard group but I can remember the 1998-99 season when United had Barcelona and Bayern Munich in our group. You just have to find a way to progress.

Like a lot of European teams, Roma operate best by controlling the midfield and that is what they did on Tuesday. By using two strikers, City played into their hands. It is obvious that in Europe, Yaya Touré cannot play in the two in front of the defence. Roberto Mancini played him further up the pitch. Sergio Aguero plays better with someone alongside him but that can create a four v two situation in the middle of midfield.

At times it was impossible for Touré and Fernandinho when Francesco Totti dropped back into midfield to add to the numbers. It was like City had never watched Roma before. Opposing teams should know what they do. When United teams played against Totti, albeit a few years ago now, we knew that Roma tried to get the ball to their captain early and play off him. We knew if you dealt with Totti then you went a long way to stopping Roma from playing.

Sometimes in Europe you have to sacrifice a part of your team. Perhaps, for instance, you have to play with just one up to increase the numbers in midfield. When Frank Lampard came on he made a difference. He was clever enough to add to the numbers in City’s midfield but he also got forward.

James Milner had an impact too when he came on. When I was still playing it seemed that when City came to Old Trafford, Milner would play. Mancini knew what he would get from him. Sometimes I think Milner suffers because he does not have a big European reputation and that means he gets left out. But he can defend and get forward. City need to find a way of winning their home games in Europe. It is a fundamental part of being successful in the Champions League.
First of all the headline, presumably with Herbert's paw prints all over it, bears no relationship to anything written in the article. Quite appalling.

Secondly, anyone who believes Scholes has written that on his own, without any assistance from someone who can at least construct a sentence, is quite possibly nearly as stupid as Scholes is. Wouldn't be surprised if it had been constructed in the Ministry of Truth at old trafford and passed off as "the musings of a ginger pig."

Scholes is basically Baldrick off Blackadder with ginger hair. The notion that he sat down and wrote that article himself is itself from the realms of high comedy.

One can just imagine (apart from the first bit) someone in united's Politburo uttering the words of Blackadder when he suggested Baldrick as a puppet MP, when they came up with the idea of Scholes as a spokesman for the club:

What we need is an utter unknown yet someone over whom we have complete power. A man with no mind, with no ideas of his own. One might almost say a man with no brain.

Couldn't have put it better myself.
 
Our team has proven to be habitually under par in this competition. I'm sorry but I don't buy having a millionaire footballer-cum-gobshite telling us to make more noise to motivate more millionaire footballers to do their job properly. Screaming and shouting is all well and good but utterly pointless when we pick the wrong players and put them in the wrong formation. This team owes us a performance in Europe, not the other way round. Selecting the likes of Milner and Lampard from the off would be a good place to start. The crowd needs something to respond to but if, as the satsuma suggests, Roma are as good as Bayern then 1-1 must therefore be a good result and we have nothing to worry about.
 
As much as I hate scholes he has made quiet a valid point here,all teams we've visited in champions league haven't only had big crowds but intimadting ones aswell,dortmund,Naples,Munich,bernabeu,camp nous and no one can deny the reality how bigger part it plays
We've had threads on bm about the atmosphere in games for a reason,may be there is something wrong ,and it evident that crowds didn't helped against Roma
Argument is often given that these are multi millionaire footballers they shouldnt need motivation which is completely absurd ,which means its us who think of players as mercernaries who should just do the job because they get paid good money
You could have people on the best wages but its not the idea of pay check that would lift the player up in the heat of battle because he will get that anyways However it would be the support the noise the belief which would get the adrenaline running and make em go all in
Scientific research proves that aggressive possitive atmosphere makes a person take more risk and Strive harder
 
jimmygrimblesboots said:
According to scholes in his latest bitter rant about our support , the rags fans always created an atmosphere at the swamp when it was a must win game in the champs league (whilst admitting some of the early group games were subdued)
Roma was the 2nd group game , it would have been great to win the game , but the draw does not mean we are out of the group , there is a lot of football left to play , before the fat lady sings , it was not a must win game
Perhaps the ginger minger should come back when we have munich at home and we have to win the game , it will be a full house and the place will be rocking , he can then compare our support to his beloved rags.
No doubt ITV will give him the opportunity to rescind his ridiculous comments , or alternatively , they could employ a pundit who doesnt despise our football club , who will give a balanced opinion.

I wouldn't hold your breath, mate.
 
Citizen in Pakistan said:
As much as I hate scholes he has made quiet a valid point here,all teams we've visited in champions league haven't only had big crowds but intimadting ones aswell,dortmund,Naples,Munich,bernabeu,camp nous and no one can deny the reality how bigger part it plays
We've had threads on bm about the atmosphere in games for a reason,may be there is something wrong ,and it evident that crowds didn't helped against Roma
Argument is often given that these are multi millionaire footballers they shouldnt need motivation which is completely absurd ,which means its us who think of players as mercernaries who should just do the job because they get paid good money
You could have people on the best wages but its not the idea of pay check that would lift the player up in the heat of battle because he will get that anyways However it would be the support the noise the belief which would get the adrenaline running and make em go all in
Scientific research proves that aggressive possitive atmosphere makes a person take more risk and Strive harder

I think the atmosphere at a lot of these other grounds you mention is overrated. Bayern have a pack of cheerleaders behind one goal led by a dick with a microphone. The rest of the ground sat in total silence as they often do in Germany.
 
Not a mention of the loads of empty seats and lack of noise from Spurs fans by ITV last night
 
blue underpants said:
Not a mention of the loads of empty seats and lack of noise from Spurs fans by ITV last night
but were the pundits from their biggest rival and still have an axe to bear!
 

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