Sergio Aguero - 2017/18 performances

[meeesh]

Do you agree that Ederson now is better than Hart?

Without a doubt

 

[domalino]

Without a doubt

Then you'd agree we're in a better position now for taking the painful decision to get rid of a beloved long term player who was past his peak.

So bringing up Hart as a mistake doesn't really work.

 

[pudge]

I don't think you did.

I would question how reliable a goalscorer he is these days. This is probably the heart of the problem Guardiola faces too.

What then does that mean? Perhaps your English is terrible otherwise that's exactly what you said.

 

[meeesh]

Of course I would, I love him. He doesn't need to leave, though. It's completely up to him. If he doesn't want to work his arse off like everyone else (compare his work rate to KDB at the moment) and wants to leave, then I'll be gutted but wish him all the best, knowing we've had the best out of him. It's up to the club's extensive scouting time to find an able replacement, something they will already be doing given his age.

Again, that doesn't have to happen. He just needs to work harder and he can if he wants to. If he's injured, he needs time on the bench, he's not exactly in prolific form and I don't think we'd miss him right now, given the form of our midfielders/wingers in front of goal.

He'd be getting a lot more stick if it wasn't for the form of KDB/Sterling/Sane/Silva. The same can be applied for Jesus, but we're tactically better with him at the moment even without goals.

But let's be honest here for a minute,all as we have heard this season,and bear in mind we are reaching the half way point of it,is that Aguero needs to work harder,needs to do this do that,what the manager says blah blah blah,his game has changed for him but he is still managing to score goals,and I believe he would of on Saturday if he hadn't been hooked,so now because he has showed a bit of petulance,people are suggesting that if he don't like it then lump it ? Nah I'm not having it,like I say some very short memories on here

 

[domalino]

What then does that mean? Perhaps your English is terrible otherwise that's exactly what you said.

No, the reason it's a problem is because if Aguero reliably scored goals then he'd probably be able to justify playing him over Jesus and the better allround game he brings, but as Sergio scores in bursts he never knows which player he's going to get.

I never said the crux of Guardiola's thinking will be if he can rely on Sergio for goals.

 

[meeesh]

Then you'd agree we're in a better position now for taking the painful decision to get rid of a beloved long term player who was past his peak.

So bringing up Hart as a mistake doesn't really work.

i didn't bring up Hart,I was responding to another post,but if you think we are all gonna wave sergio off into the sunset,you are in a minority

 

[cjn]

As for Hart,so apt that you raise this again,as we saw last season his replacement was no better,although you did beg to differ at every opportunity,this time around it is, so on we go,and not everyone thinks we are a better team without Aguero in it,that is just the starry eyed fans of the manager who go with what he thinks that's all,and so far he is calling it right,but winning a trophy or 2 this season will need the input of Aguero,without question.

You mean the starry eyed fans of the manager who has us playing the best football in our history? The one who's style and philosophy has us dominating the rest of the league and has guided us to 16 league wins on the bounce? If we're referring to the same manager then yes, I'm more than willing to trust his judgement on any player.

 

[Dax777]

We were dominating the match prior to him going off,Spurs had about 10 mins start of second half,that's it

Yes, that 10 minute start of the 2nd was what prompted the switch. Our press wasn't dirupring their build up. And they were slowly gaining a foot in a 1-0 game.

Don't know why his substitution is even a point of argument.

Once Jesus came on we wrestled control away from Spurs.

So clearly the sub had a direct positive effect. Whether you think Aguero is better or 10 times the player Jesus is matters little.

The outcome here was key. The change resulted in the desired outcome: Tottenham losing their foothold in the game. So I really don't see the issue here :?

 

[domalino]

Of course, of course. It couldn't be that your argument, when presented to you, was filled with holes.

You've neither presented my argument (just selectively quoted and misinterpreted it)nor found a hole in it, so when you do, come back to me.

 

[meeesh]

You mean the starry eyed fans of the manager who has us playing the best football in our history? The one who's style and philosophy has us dominating the rest of the league and has guided us to 16 league wins on the bounce? If we're referring to the same manager then yes, I'm more than willing to trust his judgement on any player.

Yup,let us hope there are 2 trophies in the sack come May,I'm sure there will be,but like I say and repeat,including the help of Aguero

 

[meeesh]

Yes, that 10 minute start of the 2nd was what prompted the switch. Our press wasn't dirupring their build up. And they were slowly gaining a foot in a 1-0 game.

Don't know why his substitution is even a point of argument.

Once Jesus came on we wrestled control away from Spurs.

So clearly the sub had a direct positive effect. Whether you think Aguero is better or 10 times the player Jesus is matters little.

The outcome here was key. The change resulted in the desired outcome: Tottenham losing their foothold in the game. So I really don't see the issue here :?

No issue with that point,I've already said Jesus did well when he came on,apart from the pen,but don't let me be drawn into a presumption that Aguero was brought off to stop Tottenham equalising,Jesus I must have been sat at a different game

 

[Dax777]

It's fuck all to do with either of them scoring goals but about who would press Spurs' back line into making mistakes more so the team could benefit. He pressed well first half but totally stopped in the first 10 minutes of the second and rightly got subbed.

Folks would pretend it is anything other than what the argument really is about. It is annoying the amount of emotional responses one has to wade through on these threads sometimes :(

Simple. Aguero's press waned in the 2nd half and Spurs got a foothold. Aguero got subbed for a more energetic Jesus, the press picked up, Spurs lost their fpothold and we went on to smack them.

Why there is a discussion of who is 2wice the player of who? Beats me ;?

 

[markbmcfc]

But let's be honest here for a minute,all as we have heard this season,and bear in mind we are reaching the half way point of it,is that Aguero needs to work harder,needs to do this do that,what the manager says blah blah blah,his game has changed for him but he is still managing to score goals,and I believe he would of on Saturday if he hadn't been hooked,so now because he has showed a bit of petulance,people are suggesting that if he don't like it then lump it ? Nah I'm not having it,like I say some very short memories on here

You're not listening to anyone but I think you're beyond reason.

Nothing to do with short memories, purely due to him not performing, it's incredibly simple.

I could go into several reasons as to why we needed to make that sub and how we improved when he came on but I think i'm wasting my time.

Literally nobody is saying what you are saying they are but, carry on.

 

[Dax777]

No issue with that point,I've already said Jesus did well when he came on,apart from the pen,but don't let me be drawn into a presumption that Aguero was brought off to stop Tottenham equalising,Jesus I must have been sat at a different game

When you are not playing as well the manager changes something.

That was the case at the beginning of the 2nd half. And what he did worked.

I don't care if it is Sergio, Dave or Kevin... If the change worked. Then it was right.

All the talk about Sergio the last few pages is emotion driven if you ask me. The facts supported the substitution. The result justified it.

The rest is just emotional obsfucation.

 

[FantasyIreland]

When you are not playing as well the manager changes something.

That was the case at the beginning of the 2nd half. And what he did worked.

I don't care if it is Sergio, Dave or Kevin... If the change worked. Then it was right.

All the talk about Sergio the last few pages is emotion driven if you ask me. The facts supported the substitution. The result justified it.

The rest is just emotional obsfucation.

Good post,Dax

 

[schfc6]

No issue with that point,I've already said Jesus did well when he came on,apart from the pen,but don't let me be drawn into a presumption that Aguero was brought off to stop Tottenham equalising,Jesus I must have been sat at a different game

That is exactly why Sergio was brought off though. It was fairly obvious what was happening. We were beginning to struggle with the high press, they were getting out more frequently and beginning to look dangerous. They were just about the first team to start actually playing in our half. They were beginning to close us in. We were missing Stones & Silva, our two best players when it comes to beating the press. Along with Ederson. So Guardiola made the obvious choice. Use Jesús to push them back. It worked almost instantaneously.

You've acknowledged yourself that they were on top for 10 minutes, Sergio wasn't going to get his legs back so that 10 minutes could easily have become 20/30 minutes.
The decission was right. It didn't require hindsight, it's was crying out for it. I haven't seen one poster writing off Sergio, not one. I have however seen posters saying that Jesus isn't half the player Aguero is. Which is frankly bollocks by the way. And odd to slag a player off to boost one's own opinion.

It's those allowing sentiment to colour their views that are lashing out at Jesus or other posters. Aguero has been poor for a good month or more. He's obviously really struggling to get his form back. Any player playing without confidence or struggling a little with fitness will resort to their core stregnths, especially experienced ones. Sergio is clearly doing this. Sadly, Aguero's traditional stregnths don't suit us now. He was at the height of his confidence in early autum flying and the team were benefitting.
Sergio needs to be flying to get the best out of him now, you can see he's struggling a little with his game. Injury, form or confidence. One of those or a combination of those means he's struggling. Not to mention his age and miles on the clock will make it much harder much less natural for his to 'press' than Jesus.

If everyone was fit and we were playing the CL final Friday, this City, this manager would pick Jesus. I personally get it. I personally would do that too. But I certainly understand why Sergio would struggle with that and that lots of fans would too.

A fit and firing Sergio is lethal in this side. Hopefully we'll see that again. I believe we will but I'm also fully prepared to think Sergio is certainly in the autum of his City career.

Sergio & Jesus are only striking options. They will be rotated and neither will get to their very best form, but the team need this. If one of those get injured, we only have three options then, and that will make us incredibly predictable.

 

[meeesh]

You're not listening to anyone but I think you're beyond reason.

Nothing to do with short memories, purely due to him not performing, it's incredibly simple.

I could go into several reasons as to why we needed to make that sub and how we improved when he came on but I think i'm wasting my time.

Literally nobody is saying what you are saying they are but, carry on.

No I won't carry on,as it is me whose wasting my time here,but before I go,I'll remind you he has 10 goals this season in the league from 13 starts

 

[leth]

I wouldn't be surprised if Aguero does move on this summer. Whether he's carrying an injury that could explain some flat performances this season, outside of isolated games over the past 17 months, the general trend is that he doesn't seem a natural fit for what this team needs. He'll have a game or two where it seems like he's finally on board with what Pep is asking him to do but he seems to quickly lose confidence or the will to adapt his natural game in that way. I'm not saying he doesn't try but i'm not convinced his heart is truly in it.

Clearly Jesus has a long way to go as a pure goalscorer to ever hope to match Aguero at his best. But from the first minutes of his City career you could sense a hunger and a genuine relish to press, tackle and work with an intensity we just don't see enough with Aguero. Even allowing for the fact that Jesus is currently well off form in front of goal, it's that natural intensity that really takes our collective game to the next level. It's the same reason Pep is so keen on Sanchez.

While I think Pep has had some reservations about Aguero from day one i do think he's tried to meet him half way and given him every opportunity to keep himself integral to the team going forward - and there's still a chance that something will permanently click with Aguero over the next six months. Pep couldn't be any more clear about what he expects of Sergio and we've seen he's capable of playing that way when he really wants to. He's not being forced out of the club but equally, Jesus will continue to get the nod ahead of him if he's showing signs of not being fully on board.

It seemed inconceivable that we would ever allow Aguero to leave but i personally am beginning to make peace with the notion of Sergio choosing to move on if we can attract an adequate replacement in the summer. We'll have had his best years and he'll forever be a legend at the club. I'll miss him immensely but like with Zaba, i'd much rather he was somewhere enjoying his football than here struggling to get a game and truly fit in. We're not definitely at that point yet, but it's felt like we've been heading that way for a while now. If Sergio does end up leaving i'm sure there will be an appetite on all sides for it to be amicable - ideally with a few trophies and key goals at the business end of the season.

 

[SublimeSane]

I wouldn't be surprised if Aguero does move on this summer. Whether he's carrying an injury that could explain some flat performances this season, outside of isolated games over the past 17 months, the general trend is that he doesn't seem a natural fit for what this team needs. He'll have a game or two where it seems like he's finally on board with what Pep is asking him to do but he seems to quickly lose confidence or the will to adapt his natural game in that way. I'm not saying he doesn't try but i'm not convinced his heart is truly in it.

Clearly Jesus has a long way to go as a pure goalscorer to ever hope to match Aguero at his best. But from the first minutes of his City career you could sense a hunger and a genuine relish to press, tackle and work with an intensity we just don't see enough with Aguero. Even allowing for the fact that Jesus is currently well off form in front of goal, it's that natural intensity that really takes our collective game to the next level. It's the same reason Pep is so keen on Sanchez.

While I think Pep has had some reservations about Aguero from day one i do think he's tried to meet him half way and given him every opportunity to keep himself integral to the team going forward - and there's still a chance that something will permanently click with Aguero over the next six months. Pep couldn't be any more clear about what he expects of Sergio and we've seen he's capable of playing that way when he really wants to. He's not being forced out of the club but equally, Jesus will continue to get the nod ahead of him if he's showing signs of not being fully on board.

It seemed inconceivable that we would ever allow Aguero to leave but i personally am beginning to make peace with the notion of Sergio choosing to move on if we can attract an adequate replacement in the summer. We'll have had his best years and he'll forever be a legend at the club. I'll miss him immensely but like with Zaba, i'd much rather he was somewhere enjoying his football than here struggling to get a game and truly fit in. We're not definitely at that point yet, but it's felt like we've been heading that way for a while now. If Sergio does end up leaving i'm sure there will be an appetite on all sides for it to be amicable - ideally with a few trophies and key goals at the business end of the season.

Good post that . 100% agree

 

[SWP's back]

It's fuck all to do with either of them scoring goals but about who would press Spurs' back line into making mistakes more so the team could benefit. He pressed well first half but totally stopped in the first 10 minutes of the second and rightly got subbed.

Only this.