Serious question relating to us and FFP(update P17)

Johnsonontheleft

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Does anyone know where FFP originated? I know it was first talked about shortly after our takeover and I know that it's an UEFA initiative/ruling.

My point is that it must have been mooted by an individual or group of individuals within UEFA. To say that UEFA brought FFP in is very vague - does anyone know exactly who proposed this, who participated in the meeting from which FFP arose?

I believe that Martin Samuel is bang on the money with his exposé here: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2261817/Arsenal-Manchester-United-financial-fair-play-plot-ruin-Premier-League--Martin-Samuel.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... amuel.html</a>

It would be interesting to know exactly how FFP originated.
 
Re: Serious question relating to us and FFP

Johnsonontheleft said:
Does anyone know where FFP originated? I know it was first talked about shortly after our takeover and I know that it's an UEFA initiative/ruling.

My point is that it must have been mooted by an individual or group of individuals within UEFA. To say that UEFA brought FFP in is very vague - does anyone know exactly who proposed this, who participated in the meeting from which FFP arose?

I believe that Martin Samuel is bang on the money with his exposé here: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2261817/Arsenal-Manchester-United-financial-fair-play-plot-ruin-Premier-League--Martin-Samuel.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... amuel.html</a>

It would be interesting to know exactly how FFP originated.

Read that article a while ago and it is definitely interesting to see how it 'suddenly' came about when we were starting to challenge. I think the FFP at it's core is a good idea because clubs do actually need to stop spending wildly beyond their means to get what they want, Portsmouth, Leeds, Rangers are all great examples of what happens when a club faces zero regulation and has awful management.

The idea though that it should be based on profit/loss is a bit flawed if you ask me, it should rather be based on all of that as a percentage of debt, debt is the problem in football not losses because a debt is a negative side effect to borrowing which means the club is owing real people and contractors money which in the worst cases aren't getting paid and that is the problem not clubs who want to spend the money they have available to them thanks to outside parties.

A club like ours isn't spending beyond our means because we have a major backer who is basically a guarantor so we never carry significant debt. UEFA if they really wanted it to be 'FAIR' in the true sense of the word should of really targeted the real problem and they could of very easily but instead it really stinks of trying to kill two birds with one stone and that is an outside challenge to the established order.

Now, after seeing what Paris are doing it's just a joke really.
 
Re: Serious question relating to us and FFP

Dave Ewing's Back 'eader said:
Take yer pick from The Swamp, The Lane, Anfield, The Emirates or Munich! It's come from one of them.



They was always moaning about clubs spending powers
 
Re: Serious question relating to us and FFP

The ultimate joke about FFP is PSG the French league hasn't set the world alight for decades their tv deal etc is a fraction of the premier league yet PSG manage to bend the rules with record sponsorship deals when by their own standards they have been a "sleeping giant"

Everyone wanted the Etihad deal investigated yet not a murmur about what's happening in Paris. As long as our losses keep dropping we meet the criteria the fact we are now above Liverpool and Spurs in the rich list and growing shows the farce that FFP really is and yet they want it domestically? meaning they can't spend more than us anyway??. All it does is stop any other clubs going down the same route spending first then growing. And as Martin Samuel pointed out last year kills off competition in smaller nations domestic leagues as other teams cannot compete with the teams that get in to the champions league on a regular basis (Cluj Bate etc...) Yes there does need to be some degree of regulation but businesses grow by taking risks
 
Re: Serious question relating to us and FFP

Can' say fairer than this!

Uefa report reveals 46 European clubs need funds to meet financial controls with Man City one English club at risk

Uefa has said that 46 European teams would require funds to meet incoming fiscal control regulations, after a report revealed that clubs’ losses widened by two per cent to €1.68 billion in 2011.

Feeling the heat: PSG, who signed David Beckham during transfer window, at risk of failing to meet Uefa’s requirements Photo: GETTY IMAGES
By Telegraph Sport11:24AM GMT 04 Feb 20131 Comment

An analysis of the finances of about 700 clubs released today by Nyon, Uefa showed sales of €13.2 billion in 2011 were eroded by €9.4 billion worth of spending on players and salaries, a 43 per cent increase over five years.

Clubs are being assessed by a group led by a former Belgian prime minister as part of Uefa’s so-called financial fair play regulations, which aim to reduce debt and prevent teams from spending above their means. Those that fail to meet targets face sanctions including suspension from the continent’s Champions League and Europa League competitions.
“Numerous football clubs, including some prestigious ones, have experienced severe financial difficulties, leading to top division clubs’ aggregate losses increasing again,” Uefa President Michel Platini said in the forward to the 2011 Club Licensing Benchmarking Report.

“Keeping costs under control and within sustainable limits is and will continue to be the clubs’ biggest challenge.”
The report said the trend of growing losses has affected clubs of varying sizes across Europe, with the 10 largest loss- makers increasing their combined deficits to €856 million from €596 million in 2007. The balance sheets of the next 20 leading loss-makers deteriorated by a combined 310 million euros over the same period.

Uefa's rules allow teams to have a maximum loss of €5m, or as much as €45m as long as the deficit is covered by an equity contribution, over two years through 2013. The assessment period will be increased to three years for future seasons.
Using a simulation based on fiscal results from 2009, 2010 and 2011, 14 teams playing in European club competitions this season had losses over the €45m limit and another 32 clubs reported cumulative losses of between €5m and €45m.
Clubs at risk of failing to meet Uefa’s requirements include Premier League champions Manchester City, three-time European Cup winners Inter Milan and Paris Saint-Germain, which has spent more money on players than any other team since it was acquired by an investment arm of the Qatari government in 2011.
PSG, which signed former England captain David Beckham four days ago, has spent more than $350 million in the transfer market in two years and intends to continue spending.
“It’s necessary to become one of the great European clubs,” PSG President Nasser Al-Khelaifi said told France’s L’Equipe newspaper last month. “Other clubs have invested for 20 years. We have been there for a year and a half and now we must stop pouring money? It would be unfair.”
City, PSG and other teams have tried to mitigate losses by raising income through sponsorships and Uefa said it will look at the agreements to ensure they represent fair value.
City, owned by a member of the Abu Dhabi ruling family, has four sponsors based in the emirate including airline Etihad, which last year agreed to pay 350 million pounds ($551 million) to put its name on the team’s stadium, jerseys and new training campus. PSG will get as much as €200m a year from Qatar Tourism Authority through 2016.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/9847120/Uefa-report-reveals-46-European-clubs-need-funds-to-meet-financial-controls-with-Man-City-one-English-club-at-risk.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... -risk.html</a>
 
Re: Serious question relating to us and FFP

FFP ...primarily agreed to in 2009 , after the arabian takeover of City in 2008.

Primarily designed to stop City , who were spending for fun , but hidden under the 'umbrella' of creating a level playing field throughout Europe ..... a 'level playing field' that certainly hasn't been there , in this country at least , since the Premiership began in 1992 , and maybe beyond.

That's their prime target .. halting City , and their millions .... but Platini probably hopes that if puts a spoke in the works of one or two others whilst it's at it then it won't be such a bad thing ..... although being a Frenchman he'd probably prefer it if PSG emerged unscathed !
 
Re: Serious question relating to us and FFP

They won't be happy until the top level of European football is a franchised system like NFL, Rugby League or Formula 1. Each country will have 1 to 3 teams based around urban/ city population or traditional footballing hotbeds. We will have 3 teams, their second names all based on African animals:

London Lions
Birmingham Buffalo
Warrington Wildebeest

Warrington Wildebeest will serve as the team for the catchment area and footballing hotbed of Manchester-Liverpool.
 
Re: Serious question relating to us and FFP

City branded as cheats! There's a shock.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/feb/04/manchester-city-financial-fair-play" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013 ... -fair-play</a>?
 
Re: Serious question relating to us and FFP

Carver said:
They won't be happy until the top level of European football is a franchised system like NFL, Rugby League or Formula 1. Each country will have 1 to 3 teams based around urban/ city population or traditional footballing hotbeds. We will have 3 teams, their second names all based on African animals:

London Lions
Birmingham Buffalo
Warrington Wildebeest

Warrington Wildebeest will serve as the team for the catchment area and footballing hotbed of Manchester-Liverpool.

Lol...yet part of me is actually worried it could come to this! Back to Financial unfair play,it was originally talked about as tackling clubs with huge debts but was rapidly changed to a clubs losses when Sheikh Mansour took over. It's an absolute farce and should be treated as such.
 

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