kun
Well-Known Member
There are two things in this world that can make a good person do evil things, Money and Religion.
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Shootings in Paris
- Thread starter Wio Gumflapdinand
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Along with anger, jealousy, boredom, greed and about a hundred other things.kun said:There are two things in this world that can make a good person do evil things, Money and Religion.
Bluemoon115
Well-Known Member
It's bollocks anyway.BigOscar said:Along with anger, jealousy, boredom, greed and about a hundred other things.kun said:There are two things in this world that can make a good person do evil things, Money and Religion.
If you do bad things for money or religion, you're not a good person. You're a ****, hiding behind an excuse.
blueinsa said:Would Islam ever apologise or change its behaviour if anyone said they were offended by things they do?
i dont like seeing women stoned to death, it offends me. Do you think the Muslims that support such an action give a fuck about how i feel and even if they did, they would stop doing it?
Is it ok for me and a few mates to go round murdering them?
This argument goes much further than a religious belief and is all about basic humanity.
Believe in what you want but murdering folk because you are offended, never.
I don't even know what this means. How can a non-hierarchal non-structured religion apologise to someone?
TangerineSteve17
Well-Known Member
Citizen in Pakistan said:well some just proved my point when i said about the west unwillingness to understand the point of view of muslims with comments like "when i saw it who wrote it and this and that etc well keep your eyes close people and be happy with your preconceived beliefs
To be fair though you had previously stated your opinion about freedom of speech vs drawing a cartoon, which most people here I'd imagine, would have found ridiculous. I'm all for learning and looking at things in different ways. One of my favourite quotes is Asimov.
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
If you start sentences like "Freedom of speech is ok but..." that's where a lot of people will switch off. Once you start that, things go downhill. We in the west, as you call it, have a choice to insult and offend. It does not protect us from the consequences, and it shouldn't, but that choice is infinitely better than having no choice at all.
TangerineSteve17 said:Citizen in Pakistan said:well some just proved my point when i said about the west unwillingness to understand the point of view of muslims with comments like "when i saw it who wrote it and this and that etc well keep your eyes close people and be happy with your preconceived beliefs
To be fair though you had previously stated your opinion about freedom of speech vs drawing a cartoon, which most people here I'd imagine, would have found ridiculous. I'm all for learning and looking at things in different ways. One of my favourite quotes is Asimov.
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
If you start sentences like "Freedom of speech is ok but..." that's where a lot of people will switch off. Once you start that, things go downhill. We in the west, as you call it, have a choice to insult and offend. It does not protect us from the consequences, and it shouldn't, but that choice is infinitely better than having no choice at all.
Funny thing is, if you exclude the whole element of fundamentalist religion people's opinion would be spun 180 degrees.
Do you support free speech that for example will cost British soldiers lives in the form of an intelligence leak?
Do you support free speech that will incite a race war?
Do you support free speech that will provoke the killing of the disabled?
He is right, and many people would agree with him if he wasn't a Muslim from Pakistan. Free speech in this country absolutely has limits. This isn't even an argument, it's legislation.
The same people who are saying that they should "get over it" that Mohammed was disrespected are the same people who are saying that we should lock up a cleric for preaching hate towards the UK.
TangerineSteve17
Well-Known Member
Damocles said:TangerineSteve17 said:Citizen in Pakistan said:well some just proved my point when i said about the west unwillingness to understand the point of view of muslims with comments like "when i saw it who wrote it and this and that etc well keep your eyes close people and be happy with your preconceived beliefs
To be fair though you had previously stated your opinion about freedom of speech vs drawing a cartoon, which most people here I'd imagine, would have found ridiculous. I'm all for learning and looking at things in different ways. One of my favourite quotes is Asimov.
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
If you start sentences like "Freedom of speech is ok but..." that's where a lot of people will switch off. Once you start that, things go downhill. We in the west, as you call it, have a choice to insult and offend. It does not protect us from the consequences, and it shouldn't, but that choice is infinitely better than having no choice at all.
Funny thing is, if you exclude the whole element of fundamentalist religion people's opinion would be spun 180 degrees.
Do you support free speech that for example will cost British soldiers lives in the form of an intelligence leak?
Do you support free speech that will incite a race war?
Do you support free speech that will provoke the killing of the disabled?
He is right, and many people would agree with him if he wasn't a Muslim from Pakistan. Free speech in this country absolutely has limits. This isn't even an argument, it's legislation.
The same people who are saying that they should "get over it" that Mohammed was disrespected are the same people who are saying that we should lock up a cleric for preaching hate towards the UK.
I said that myself a few pages back. There is only freedom of speech within the law. That was not my point though, my point was purely about choice. Inciting racial hatred is a crime here unfortunately. I say unfortunately because it has had to become necessary. Freedom of speech means you'll hear things you disagree with and will be offended by, it's all subjective, but what is the alternative, that's my point too.
The killing of the disabled thing..If someone wants to incite that then it will become illegal, as a necessity. People's morals are diverse but I think the one thing that unites us is that we all want to be free and not oppressed. Well most of us.
ultimateharold
Well-Known Member
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnMi5Bq4PX0[/video]
There are voices out there.
Unfortunately, they're not given the airtime as it doesn't generate views/clicks.
There are voices out there.
Unfortunately, they're not given the airtime as it doesn't generate views/clicks.
SWP's back
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 89,065
Damocles said:TangerineSteve17 said:Citizen in Pakistan said:well some just proved my point when i said about the west unwillingness to understand the point of view of muslims with comments like "when i saw it who wrote it and this and that etc well keep your eyes close people and be happy with your preconceived beliefs
To be fair though you had previously stated your opinion about freedom of speech vs drawing a cartoon, which most people here I'd imagine, would have found ridiculous. I'm all for learning and looking at things in different ways. One of my favourite quotes is Asimov.
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
If you start sentences like "Freedom of speech is ok but..." that's where a lot of people will switch off. Once you start that, things go downhill. We in the west, as you call it, have a choice to insult and offend. It does not protect us from the consequences, and it shouldn't, but that choice is infinitely better than having no choice at all.
Funny thing is, if you exclude the whole element of fundamentalist religion people's opinion would be spun 180 degrees.
Do you support free speech that for example will cost British soldiers lives in the form of an intelligence leak? illegal
Do you support free speech that will incite a race war? illegal
Do you support free speech that will provoke the killing of the disabled? illegal
He is right, and many people would agree with him if he wasn't a Muslim from Pakistan. Free speech in this country absolutely has limits. This isn't even an argument, it's legislation.
The same people who are saying that they should "get over it" that Mohammed was disrespected are the same people who are saying that we should lock up a cleric for preaching hate towards the UK.
Drawing a picture of a half millenia dead fella isn't illegal and if you choose to live in the UK, then you have to abide by its rules.
A bit like I don't drink on the streets in Qatar or walk my dog on the Corniche.
SWP's back said:Damocles said:TangerineSteve17 said:To be fair though you had previously stated your opinion about freedom of speech vs drawing a cartoon, which most people here I'd imagine, would have found ridiculous. I'm all for learning and looking at things in different ways. One of my favourite quotes is Asimov.
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
If you start sentences like "Freedom of speech is ok but..." that's where a lot of people will switch off. Once you start that, things go downhill. We in the west, as you call it, have a choice to insult and offend. It does not protect us from the consequences, and it shouldn't, but that choice is infinitely better than having no choice at all.
Funny thing is, if you exclude the whole element of fundamentalist religion people's opinion would be spun 180 degrees.
Just to understand this idea better, why are the above three including racist remarks, anti-Semitic speech etc. illegal but defaming a religion legal ?
Do you support free speech that for example will cost British soldiers lives in the form of an intelligence leak? illegal
Do you support free speech that will incite a race war? illegal
Do you support free speech that will provoke the killing of the disabled? illegal
He is right, and many people would agree with him if he wasn't a Muslim from Pakistan. Free speech in this country absolutely has limits. This isn't even an argument, it's legislation.
The same people who are saying that they should "get over it" that Mohammed was disrespected are the same people who are saying that we should lock up a cleric for preaching hate towards the UK.
Drawing a picture of a half millenia dead fella isn't illegal and if you choose to live in the UK, then you have to abide by its rules.
A bit like I don't drink on the streets in Qatar or walk my dog on the Corniche.
To understand this idea better... so why is it that the above 3 including racist remarks, anti-semtism etc. illegal but defaming religion legal ?