Shootings in Paris

This is anaethema to me. I feel dirty. But fuck me Simon Heffer of the Daily Mail you have suprised me.


<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2901283/SIMON-HEFFER-France-land-tormented-history-hostility-natives-increasing-Muslim-population-grows.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... grows.html</a>


Even before yesterday’s outrage, France was in torment over Islam. Racial tensions have run high for years, and have partly accounted for the rise in popularity of the Front National, the right-wing party that demands adherence to a traditional French cultural identity.

Now, at a time of shock and disbelief, many moderates will fear for a society so deeply divided. Already fresh in the memory are the murder of seven people in Toulouse by an Al Qaeda fanatic in 2012 and a similar killing spree at a Jewish museum in Brussels last year, for which a man with French and Algerian citizenship was arrested.

Ever since the Algerian war of independence broke out 60 years ago, there has been hostility between native French and the country’s increasing Muslim population (estimated now to total as much as 7 per cent).



Racial tensions have run high for years in France and the fact is that there is a clash of cultures and a cauldron of hatreds that made yesterday’s attack at Charlie Hebdo headquarters almost inevitable

The fact is that there is a clash of cultures and a cauldron of hatreds that made yesterday’s attack almost inevitable.

Above all, France has an abominable record of managing its Muslim community – which has, in turn, become increasingly radicalised in the grim suburbs (banlieues) of northern Paris, from which countless young men have gone to fight as jihadis in Syria.



France never used to have this problem. During the 19th and 20th centuries, many French wholeheartedly embraced the Maghrebi culture of those who lived under French colonial rule.

The affection was reciprocated. Even in 1954, when the Algerian war broke out, thousands of Muslim soldiers remained loyal to the Fourth Republic.

However, these courageous people – known as the Harkis – were subject to the most appalling betrayal by the French state after independence in 1962.

President Charles de Gaulle was unsympathetic to their fate, denying them the right to settle in France. Some managed to escape – and were treated by the French as third-class citizens herded into internment camps.

Eventually, the Paris government allowed more to settle in France, but widespread discrimination against them has become entrenched and there is an historic grudge that has undoubtedly fuelled Islamic extremism.

In the 1960s and 1970s, economic boom years in France, there was a huge immigration of labourers from Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia. But they were dumped in ghettos without any thought given to their integration.

As a result of this social ostracisation and the parallel growth of extremism among the Muslim young, there was a backlash among the indigenous French people who voted, in 2002, for the right-wing Front National – with the party’s leader, Jean-Marie Le Pen, coming runner-up in the presidential election.

The election victor, Jacques Chirac, took an equally hard line and said that the wearing of the hijab – seen as a symbol of the Muslim faith – breached France’s formal division between Church and State. Women were banned from wearing the veil and head-scarf on government premises the following year.

Perhaps it is not surprising that young Muslims who have grown up in the squalid banlieues, feeling they are victims of racism and persecution, regard themselves as soldiers in a modern-day extension of the old colonial wars.

When riots broke out in Clichy-sous-Bois in the eastern suburbs of Paris in 2005, newspapers termed it ‘the French intifada’ – a term the angry Muslims embraced with pride, because of the comparison it made with their Palestinian brothers fighting Israeli occupation. Those riots were caused by two Muslim youths electrocuting themselves fleeing the police.

The violence and destruction lasted for days, with President Chirac declaring a state of emergency and politicians accusing the radical Union of Islamic Organisations of France of stirring up the trouble.

Order was restored, but conditions in the Muslim banlieues– have since deteriorated, and over recent years, the divide has deepened.


President Charles de Gaulle was unsympathetic to the fate of Harkis or Muslim soldiers. While Jacques Chirac said that the wearing of the hijab breached France’s formal division between Church and State


In 2009, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the burqa was not welcome in France, as it was a symbol of female subservience. His opponents on the Left took a similarly tough position.

The attitude of the wider French public also hardened against Muslims. A survey in 2013 found that only 26 per cent felt that Islam was compatible with French society.

Added to this incendiary mood was the decision of the current president, Francois Hollande, to bomb Islamist militant positions in northern Mali (another former French colony) to drive out al-Qaeda-linked groups.
In 2009, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the burqa was not welcome in France, as it was a symbol of female subservience
+5

In 2009, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the burqa was not welcome in France, as it was a symbol of female subservience

Most disturbingly, terror groups’ networks are said to be particularly developed in France, and intelligence services believe at least 700 French nationals or people living in France are either fighting in Syria, had already returned or were planning to become jihadists.

To add to the inflammatory mix, hours before yesterday’s attack, Michel Houellebecq, France’s most controversial living novelist, published a book, Submission, predicting how France will soon become an Islamicised country where universities are compelled to teach the Koran, women are made to wear the veil and polygamy is lawful.

Such scare-mongering – combined with a murderous minority of Muslim extremists and a dreadful economy – leaves France dangerously on the edge of social breakdown
Click to expand...
 
Rascal said:
This is anaethema to me. I feel dirty. But fuck me Simon Heffer of the Daily Mail you have suprised me.


<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2901283/SIMON-HEFFER-France-land-tormented-history-hostility-natives-increasing-Muslim-population-grows.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... grows.html</a>


Even before yesterday’s outrage, France was in torment over Islam. Racial tensions have run high for years, and have partly accounted for the rise in popularity of the Front National, the right-wing party that demands adherence to a traditional French cultural identity.

Now, at a time of shock and disbelief, many moderates will fear for a society so deeply divided. Already fresh in the memory are the murder of seven people in Toulouse by an Al Qaeda fanatic in 2012 and a similar killing spree at a Jewish museum in Brussels last year, for which a man with French and Algerian citizenship was arrested.

Ever since the Algerian war of independence broke out 60 years ago, there has been hostility between native French and the country’s increasing Muslim population (estimated now to total as much as 7 per cent).



Racial tensions have run high for years in France and the fact is that there is a clash of cultures and a cauldron of hatreds that made yesterday’s attack at Charlie Hebdo headquarters almost inevitable

The fact is that there is a clash of cultures and a cauldron of hatreds that made yesterday’s attack almost inevitable.

Above all, France has an abominable record of managing its Muslim community – which has, in turn, become increasingly radicalised in the grim suburbs (banlieues) of northern Paris, from which countless young men have gone to fight as jihadis in Syria.



France never used to have this problem. During the 19th and 20th centuries, many French wholeheartedly embraced the Maghrebi culture of those who lived under French colonial rule.

The affection was reciprocated. Even in 1954, when the Algerian war broke out, thousands of Muslim soldiers remained loyal to the Fourth Republic.

However, these courageous people – known as the Harkis – were subject to the most appalling betrayal by the French state after independence in 1962.

President Charles de Gaulle was unsympathetic to their fate, denying them the right to settle in France. Some managed to escape – and were treated by the French as third-class citizens herded into internment camps.

Eventually, the Paris government allowed more to settle in France, but widespread discrimination against them has become entrenched and there is an historic grudge that has undoubtedly fuelled Islamic extremism.

In the 1960s and 1970s, economic boom years in France, there was a huge immigration of labourers from Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia. But they were dumped in ghettos without any thought given to their integration.

As a result of this social ostracisation and the parallel growth of extremism among the Muslim young, there was a backlash among the indigenous French people who voted, in 2002, for the right-wing Front National – with the party’s leader, Jean-Marie Le Pen, coming runner-up in the presidential election.

The election victor, Jacques Chirac, took an equally hard line and said that the wearing of the hijab – seen as a symbol of the Muslim faith – breached France’s formal division between Church and State. Women were banned from wearing the veil and head-scarf on government premises the following year.

Perhaps it is not surprising that young Muslims who have grown up in the squalid banlieues, feeling they are victims of racism and persecution, regard themselves as soldiers in a modern-day extension of the old colonial wars.

When riots broke out in Clichy-sous-Bois in the eastern suburbs of Paris in 2005, newspapers termed it ‘the French intifada’ – a term the angry Muslims embraced with pride, because of the comparison it made with their Palestinian brothers fighting Israeli occupation. Those riots were caused by two Muslim youths electrocuting themselves fleeing the police.

The violence and destruction lasted for days, with President Chirac declaring a state of emergency and politicians accusing the radical Union of Islamic Organisations of France of stirring up the trouble.

Order was restored, but conditions in the Muslim banlieues– have since deteriorated, and over recent years, the divide has deepened.


President Charles de Gaulle was unsympathetic to the fate of Harkis or Muslim soldiers. While Jacques Chirac said that the wearing of the hijab breached France’s formal division between Church and State


In 2009, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the burqa was not welcome in France, as it was a symbol of female subservience. His opponents on the Left took a similarly tough position.

The attitude of the wider French public also hardened against Muslims. A survey in 2013 found that only 26 per cent felt that Islam was compatible with French society.

Added to this incendiary mood was the decision of the current president, Francois Hollande, to bomb Islamist militant positions in northern Mali (another former French colony) to drive out al-Qaeda-linked groups.
In 2009, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the burqa was not welcome in France, as it was a symbol of female subservience
+5

In 2009, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the burqa was not welcome in France, as it was a symbol of female subservience

Most disturbingly, terror groups’ networks are said to be particularly developed in France, and intelligence services believe at least 700 French nationals or people living in France are either fighting in Syria, had already returned or were planning to become jihadists.

To add to the inflammatory mix, hours before yesterday’s attack, Michel Houellebecq, France’s most controversial living novelist, published a book, Submission, predicting how France will soon become an Islamicised country where universities are compelled to teach the Koran, women are made to wear the veil and polygamy is lawful.

Such scare-mongering – combined with a murderous minority of Muslim extremists and a dreadful economy – leaves France dangerously on the edge of social breakdown
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Large parts of French cities such as Paris and Marseilles are already Islamicised so I would say that the French people who want to remain French and dare I say it Christian and not be ruled by Sharia law forced upon them by a European Islamic Caliphate have a lot to be worried about
 
"Large parts of French cities such as Paris and Marseilles are already Islamicised so I would say that the French people who want to remain French and dare I say it Christian and not be ruled by Sharia law forced upon them by a European Islamic Caliphate have a lot to be worried about"


Been to Bradford recently ?, Oldham if you want it closer to home, or a growing number of other towns and cities across the country where this is being reenacted, but the people who have spoke out have not been called worried have they ?, rather they have had Racist screamed at them by the fools who stage managed this soon to be disaster by importing a civil war in the making.
 
blue underpants said:
Rascal said:
This is anaethema to me. I feel dirty. But fuck me Simon Heffer of the Daily Mail you have suprised me.


<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2901283/SIMON-HEFFER-France-land-tormented-history-hostility-natives-increasing-Muslim-population-grows.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... grows.html</a>


Even before yesterday’s outrage, France was in torment over Islam. Racial tensions have run high for years, and have partly accounted for the rise in popularity of the Front National, the right-wing party that demands adherence to a traditional French cultural identity.

Now, at a time of shock and disbelief, many moderates will fear for a society so deeply divided. Already fresh in the memory are the murder of seven people in Toulouse by an Al Qaeda fanatic in 2012 and a similar killing spree at a Jewish museum in Brussels last year, for which a man with French and Algerian citizenship was arrested.

Ever since the Algerian war of independence broke out 60 years ago, there has been hostility between native French and the country’s increasing Muslim population (estimated now to total as much as 7 per cent).



Racial tensions have run high for years in France and the fact is that there is a clash of cultures and a cauldron of hatreds that made yesterday’s attack at Charlie Hebdo headquarters almost inevitable

The fact is that there is a clash of cultures and a cauldron of hatreds that made yesterday’s attack almost inevitable.

Above all, France has an abominable record of managing its Muslim community – which has, in turn, become increasingly radicalised in the grim suburbs (banlieues) of northern Paris, from which countless young men have gone to fight as jihadis in Syria.



France never used to have this problem. During the 19th and 20th centuries, many French wholeheartedly embraced the Maghrebi culture of those who lived under French colonial rule.

The affection was reciprocated. Even in 1954, when the Algerian war broke out, thousands of Muslim soldiers remained loyal to the Fourth Republic.

However, these courageous people – known as the Harkis – were subject to the most appalling betrayal by the French state after independence in 1962.

President Charles de Gaulle was unsympathetic to their fate, denying them the right to settle in France. Some managed to escape – and were treated by the French as third-class citizens herded into internment camps.

Eventually, the Paris government allowed more to settle in France, but widespread discrimination against them has become entrenched and there is an historic grudge that has undoubtedly fuelled Islamic extremism.

In the 1960s and 1970s, economic boom years in France, there was a huge immigration of labourers from Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia. But they were dumped in ghettos without any thought given to their integration.

As a result of this social ostracisation and the parallel growth of extremism among the Muslim young, there was a backlash among the indigenous French people who voted, in 2002, for the right-wing Front National – with the party’s leader, Jean-Marie Le Pen, coming runner-up in the presidential election.

The election victor, Jacques Chirac, took an equally hard line and said that the wearing of the hijab – seen as a symbol of the Muslim faith – breached France’s formal division between Church and State. Women were banned from wearing the veil and head-scarf on government premises the following year.

Perhaps it is not surprising that young Muslims who have grown up in the squalid banlieues, feeling they are victims of racism and persecution, regard themselves as soldiers in a modern-day extension of the old colonial wars.

When riots broke out in Clichy-sous-Bois in the eastern suburbs of Paris in 2005, newspapers termed it ‘the French intifada’ – a term the angry Muslims embraced with pride, because of the comparison it made with their Palestinian brothers fighting Israeli occupation. Those riots were caused by two Muslim youths electrocuting themselves fleeing the police.

The violence and destruction lasted for days, with President Chirac declaring a state of emergency and politicians accusing the radical Union of Islamic Organisations of France of stirring up the trouble.

Order was restored, but conditions in the Muslim banlieues– have since deteriorated, and over recent years, the divide has deepened.


President Charles de Gaulle was unsympathetic to the fate of Harkis or Muslim soldiers. While Jacques Chirac said that the wearing of the hijab breached France’s formal division between Church and State


In 2009, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the burqa was not welcome in France, as it was a symbol of female subservience. His opponents on the Left took a similarly tough position.

The attitude of the wider French public also hardened against Muslims. A survey in 2013 found that only 26 per cent felt that Islam was compatible with French society.

Added to this incendiary mood was the decision of the current president, Francois Hollande, to bomb Islamist militant positions in northern Mali (another former French colony) to drive out al-Qaeda-linked groups.
In 2009, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the burqa was not welcome in France, as it was a symbol of female subservience
+5

In 2009, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the burqa was not welcome in France, as it was a symbol of female subservience

Most disturbingly, terror groups’ networks are said to be particularly developed in France, and intelligence services believe at least 700 French nationals or people living in France are either fighting in Syria, had already returned or were planning to become jihadists.

To add to the inflammatory mix, hours before yesterday’s attack, Michel Houellebecq, France’s most controversial living novelist, published a book, Submission, predicting how France will soon become an Islamicised country where universities are compelled to teach the Koran, women are made to wear the veil and polygamy is lawful.

Such scare-mongering – combined with a murderous minority of Muslim extremists and a dreadful economy – leaves France dangerously on the edge of social breakdown
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Large parts of French cities such as Paris and Marseilles are already Islamicised so I would say that the French people who want to remain French and dare I say it Christian and not be ruled by Sharia law forced upon them by a European Islamic Caliphate have a lot to be worried about
Click to expand...
Evidence please?

As I digression why are all our newspaper perpetuating fear with their front pages today whilst the rest of Europe showing defiance publishing pictures in solidarity from the affected newspaper?
 
blueonblue said:
"Large parts of French cities such as Paris and Marseilles are already Islamicised so I would say that the French people who want to remain French and dare I say it Christian and not be ruled by Sharia law forced upon them by a European Islamic Caliphate have a lot to be worried about"


Been to Bradford recently ?, Oldham if you want it closer to home, or a growing number of other towns and cities across the country where this is being reenacted, but the people who have spoke out have not been called worried have they ?, rather they have had Racist screamed at them by the fools who stage managed this soon to be disaster by importing a civil war in the making.
Click to expand...
Ssshhhhh it's nearly Noon and the Lefties will be getting out of their pits shortly so you will kop for it, some have been lurking about though since quite early there must a group hug planned around a threatened tree or a fracking site somewhere, Judge Monkfish has been quite prolific this Morning, must sign off as i'm out of my depth!
 
blue underpants said:
blueonblue said:
"Large parts of French cities such as Paris and Marseilles are already Islamicised so I would say that the French people who want to remain French and dare I say it Christian and not be ruled by Sharia law forced upon them by a European Islamic Caliphate have a lot to be worried about"


Been to Bradford recently ?, Oldham if you want it closer to home, or a growing number of other towns and cities across the country where this is being reenacted, but the people who have spoke out have not been called worried have they ?, rather they have had Racist screamed at them by the fools who stage managed this soon to be disaster by importing a civil war in the making.
Click to expand...
Ssshhhhh it's nearly Noon and the Lefties will be getting out of their pits shortly so you will kop for it, some have been lurking about though since quite early there must a group hug planned around a threatened tree or a fracking site somewhere, Judge Monkfish has been quite prolific this Morning, must sign off as i'm out of my depth!
Click to expand...
Once again where's the evidence?

Less than 5% of the country are Muslim and a tiny minority of them maybe brainwashed by an bastardised interpretation of their religion.

This civil war BS is getting on my nerves. I remember my grandad saying it when the IRA were rampant but we're not all ginger and river dancing are we?
 
mat said:
blue underpants said:
blueonblue said:
"Large parts of French cities such as Paris and Marseilles are already Islamicised so I would say that the French people who want to remain French and dare I say it Christian and not be ruled by Sharia law forced upon them by a European Islamic Caliphate have a lot to be worried about"


Been to Bradford recently ?, Oldham if you want it closer to home, or a growing number of other towns and cities across the country where this is being reenacted, but the people who have spoke out have not been called worried have they ?, rather they have had Racist screamed at them by the fools who stage managed this soon to be disaster by importing a civil war in the making.
Click to expand...
Ssshhhhh it's nearly Noon and the Lefties will be getting out of their pits shortly so you will kop for it, some have been lurking about though since quite early there must a group hug planned around a threatened tree or a fracking site somewhere, Judge Monkfish has been quite prolific this Morning, must sign off as i'm out of my depth!
Click to expand...
Once again where's the evidence?

Less than 5% of the country are Muslim and a tiny minority of them maybe brainwashed by an bastardised interpretation of their religion.

This civil war BS is getting on my nerves. I remember my grandad saying it when the IRA were rampant but we're not all ginger and river dancing are we?
Click to expand...

There are some armchair mercenaries on here who like nothing more than to fantasise about some bloody civil war.

Lack of evidence to support their alarmist prognostications doesn't slow them down for a minute.
 
blue underpants said:
blueonblue said:
"Large parts of French cities such as Paris and Marseilles are already Islamicised so I would say that the French people who want to remain French and dare I say it Christian and not be ruled by Sharia law forced upon them by a European Islamic Caliphate have a lot to be worried about"


Been to Bradford recently ?, Oldham if you want it closer to home, or a growing number of other towns and cities across the country where this is being reenacted, but the people who have spoke out have not been called worried have they ?, rather they have had Racist screamed at them by the fools who stage managed this soon to be disaster by importing a civil war in the making.
Click to expand...
Ssshhhhh it's nearly Noon and the Lefties will be getting out of their pits shortly so you will kop for it, some have been lurking about though since quite early there must a group hug planned around a threatened tree or a fracking site somewhere, Judge Monkfish has been quite prolific this Morning, must sign off as i'm out of my depth!
Click to expand...

I'm not left wing

I don't read the guardian

I don't eat lentils

I don't ride an ironic bike around Chorlton

I don't like George Galloway

I'm just a well balanced individual who sees the big picture...and I know all you right wing types will be rubbing your hands and gearing up to jump on the anti-muslim train with a good old lynching propoganda drive

Like Mat has stated...the muslim population makes up under 5% of the population of the UK...Of that number only a small percentage are radicalised

But hey...if the red top papers say the end of the world is nigh...there must be something in it eh?
 
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