Shootings in Paris

[blueinsa]

Many of those trying but failing to defend Islam would be up in arms if the C of E wouldn't allow homosexuals and women within the clergy.

All religion is fairy tale nonsense, thankfully, ours has moved with the times which makes it slightly more palatable.

Islam needs to also move into the modern era and I look forward to its leaders around the world doing just that.

 

[Anonymous]

Again, offensive comments about a person's race is different from those about beliefs.

It wasn't referring to the comments, although they are relevant as what started as imagery soon progressed into racial slurs. I was highlighting the imagery itself. How it was deemed acceptable at the time and how people/companies vehemently defended the right to use it innocently. How perceptions change.

We all know racial and religious are different, God knows it's been said enough times on this thread, but if a cartoon is produced of a mock Muslim complete with long beard and traditional Muslim clothing in a derogatory way to cause offence and I as a Muslim (for arguments sake) saw it and identified with it because I looked exactly the same, would I not feel similar offence as say a black person might have done when confronted with the imagery of the now defunct "golliwog?."


Some of our fans might chant Munich chants,
some may feel it's their right,
some may feel it's harmless banter,
some may find it offensive,
All should see it as totally unnecessary even if it's legal or not.

What good can possibly come of it?.

In theory Edin Dzeko could take offence just as much as a middle Eastern bearded Muslim. His appearance is by the by. I agree not much good is going to come of it. I wouldn't ever draw cartoons of Mohammed if many found it offensive, the point is we should be able to do it without violent retribution.

I never said Middle Eastern. See how things can get confused?, unless you're saying Edin couldn't grow a long beard and dress in traditional Muslim dress?.

You are right there should never be violence, but every nation and creed has had blood on it's hands at some point in history.

Maybe we should be nice to each other and work on a synthesis over time by being respectful to each other.

 

[mackenzie]

Yeah, loads of expat Christian kids blowing themselves up and shooting people here in Qatar so totally agree....

And as I said in my other post last night....'somehow' some young Muslims feel separated. And within your rather glib answer lies part of the problem; you don't want to find out WHY it's happening, you just assume all communities and individuals are the same.

Do I fuck as like.

And you stated in the post I replied to that they didn't feel secure and accepted as they've only been here a short time.

Well they are a fucking great sight more secure and able to practice their religion in Europe than Christians are in areas of the Middle East. Christmas, Easter, Jesus, Judaism cannot be taught in Qatar. Teachers aren't even allowed to mention Greek or Roman gods in history.

Try teaching about Ancient Egyptians and why The Pyramids were built without saying how Pharows were deitified.

I don't think all individuals and communities are the same. It's just some are more tolerant than others and during my experience, Islam has the thinnest skin and is the least tolerant of those religions I have come into contact with.

Then why the glib answer trying to compare?

There are many, often complex, factors and dynamics involved in this. All pertinent to the people that feel the need to do this. Just like there was with the Irish issue.

My overall point was that until people start to understand the dynamics of this and start trying to understand why it is happening, rather than simply looking at the world as it is known to THEM then nothing will change.

The attacks in Paris were horrendous, but only when a collective proactive wish to get at the roots of why it happened will there be an answer.

 

[Anonymous]

Many of those trying but failing to defend Islam would be up in arms if the C of E wouldn't allow homosexuals and women within the clergy.

All religion is fairy tale nonsense, thankfully, ours has moved with the times which makes it slightly more palatable.

Islam needs to also move into the modern era and I look forward to its leaders around the world doing just that.

Believe it or not there exists a more moderate version of Islam that the one beamed into your living room every day.

Homosexuality for example used to be illegal in this country. Now it is not, we can't change something overnight and then sneer at others who haven't changed the next day as if we hold up some moral bastion of light on the matter.

 

[johnmc]

Many of those trying but failing to defend Islam would be up in arms if the C of E wouldn't allow homosexuals and women within the clergy.

All religion is fairy tale nonsense, thankfully, ours has moved with the times which makes it slightly more palatable.

Islam needs to also move into the modern era and I look forward to its leaders around the world doing just that.

Believe it or not there exists a more moderate version of Islam that the one beamed into your living room every day.

Homosexuality for example used to be illegal in this country. Now it is not, we can't change something overnight and then sneer at others who haven't changed the next day as if we hold up some moral bastion of light on the matter.

But any sensible person would agree that homosexuality being illegal was absurd and the law was rightfully changed over 50 years ago. Do you know anyone who believes that was not the right decision and shouldn't be the case worldwide. And presuming your answer is no surely 50 years is more than enough time to realise this.

 

[Balti]

No excuse can justify the actions of the sick murdering jihadist scum in Paris.

 

[SWP's back]

And as I said in my other post last night....'somehow' some young Muslims feel separated. And within your rather glib answer lies part of the problem; you don't want to find out WHY it's happening, you just assume all communities and individuals are the same.

Do I fuck as like.

And you stated in the post I replied to that they didn't feel secure and accepted as they've only been here a short time.

Well they are a fucking great sight more secure and able to practice their religion in Europe than Christians are in areas of the Middle East. Christmas, Easter, Jesus, Judaism cannot be taught in Qatar. Teachers aren't even allowed to mention Greek or Roman gods in history.

Try teaching about Ancient Egyptians and why The Pyramids were built without saying how Pharows were deitified.

I don't think all individuals and communities are the same. It's just some are more tolerant than others and during my experience, Islam has the thinnest skin and is the least tolerant of those religions I have come into contact with.

That just sounds like "they do it as well." It doesn't make it right though does it?.

How long have schools taught about evolution in the UK. There was a time when only creationism would've been taught. School/education is a church invention.

That's the thing with secularism and science though isn't it. It changes with facts and evidence.

Unlike Islam, and Islamic States which refuse to move with the times. Hell, even the Pope says evolution is real.

If your point is saying "give them time as they are behind europe in this" then I'd agree, they are. But the sooner some see that Islam isn't the only way then nothing will change.

You really should live under Sharia law though, it's a real eye opener.

 

[Anonymous]

Many of those trying but failing to defend Islam would be up in arms if the C of E wouldn't allow homosexuals and women within the clergy.

All religion is fairy tale nonsense, thankfully, ours has moved with the times which makes it slightly more palatable.

Islam needs to also move into the modern era and I look forward to its leaders around the world doing just that.

Believe it or not there exists a more moderate version of Islam that the one beamed into your living room every day.

Homosexuality for example used to be illegal in this country. Now it is not, we can't change something overnight and then sneer at others who haven't changed the next day as if we hold up some moral bastion of light on the matter.

But any sensible person would agree that homosexuality being illegal was absurd and the law was rightfully changed over 50 years ago. Do you know anyone who believes that was not the right decision and shouldn't be the case worldwide. And presuming your answer is no surely 50 years is more than enough time to realise this.

I don't know anybody personally but I'm sure lots of people are still apposed to homosexuality, even religious people.

If there isn't any proof that it (homosexuality) is predisposed at birth then surely somebody could be apposed to it (homosexuality). I really don't know the research or findings into this matter. I think scientific views can and often do change or be revised upon new research and discovery.

We have to stop vilifying Islam as I feel this only adds to the problem and will ultimately push moderate Muslims towards extremism. Invading countries, bullshit wars and satire don't seem to be doing anything other than perpetuating the problem.

I would've preferred to see multi cultural marches side by side with our more moderate Muslims in the west as a show of defiance and solidarity, than a staged photo opportunity for our illustrious world leaders. Many of which are hypocrites of the highest order.

We have to wonder who benefits from all of this?.

 

[Balti]

Believe it or not there exists a more moderate version of Islam that the one beamed into your living room every day.

Homosexuality for example used to be illegal in this country. Now it is not, we can't change something overnight and then sneer at others who haven't changed the next day as if we hold up some moral bastion of light on the matter.

But any sensible person would agree that homosexuality being illegal was absurd and the law was rightfully changed over 50 years ago. Do you know anyone who believes that was not the right decision and shouldn't be the case worldwide. And presuming your answer is no surely 50 years is more than enough time to realise this.

I don't know anybody personally but I'm sure lots of people are still apposed to homosexuality, even religious people.

If there isn't any proof that it (homosexuality) is predisposed at birth then surely somebody could be apposed to it (homosexuality). I really don't know the research or findings into this matter. I think scientific views can and often do change or be revised upon new research and discovery.

We have to stop vilifying Islam as I feel this only adds to the problem and will ultimately push moderate Muslims towards extremism. Invading countries, bullshit wars and satire don't seem to be doing anything other than perpetuating the problem.

I would've preferred to see multi cultural marches side by side with our more moderate Muslims in the west as a show of defiance and solidarity, than a staged photo opportunity for our illustrious world leaders. Many of which are hypocrites of the highest order.

We have to wonder who benefits from all of this?.

Perhaps we could all simply unite in vilifying murdering Islamic Jihadist scum?

 

[Anonymous]

No excuse can justify the actions of the sick murdering jihadist scum in Paris.

This helps!.

Just when you think you're having some meaningful debate, someone (usually with little to no knowledge of the subject) from the media manipulated masses thinks they're really clever and weighs in with a provocative picture that they found after somebody else posted on it on Twitter or Facebook rather than contribute.

I don't think anybody has ever tried to justify what happened in Paris on this thread.

What are you trying to express with somebody else's picture?.

 

[johnmc]

Believe it or not there exists a more moderate version of Islam that the one beamed into your living room every day.

Homosexuality for example used to be illegal in this country. Now it is not, we can't change something overnight and then sneer at others who haven't changed the next day as if we hold up some moral bastion of light on the matter.

But any sensible person would agree that homosexuality being illegal was absurd and the law was rightfully changed over 50 years ago. Do you know anyone who believes that was not the right decision and shouldn't be the case worldwide. And presuming your answer is no surely 50 years is more than enough time to realise this.

I don't know anybody personally but I'm sure lots of people are still apposed to homosexuality, even religious people.

If there isn't any proof that it (homosexuality) is predisposed at birth then surely somebody could be apposed to it (homosexuality). I really don't know the research or findings into this matter. I think scientific views can and often do change or be revised upon new research and discovery.

We have to stop vilifying Islam as I feel this only adds to the problem and will ultimately push moderate Muslims towards extremism. Invading countries, bullshit wars and satire don't seem to be doing anything other than perpetuating the problem.

I would've preferred to see multi cultural marches side by side with our more moderate Muslims in the west as a show of defiance and solidarity, than a staged photo opportunity for our illustrious world leaders. Many of which are hypocrites of the highest order.

We have to wonder who benefits from all of this?.

Sorry. Are you saying you are not sure whether someone is born gay or chooses to be?

 

[SWP's back]

But any sensible person would agree that homosexuality being illegal was absurd and the law was rightfully changed over 50 years ago. Do you know anyone who believes that was not the right decision and shouldn't be the case worldwide. And presuming your answer is no surely 50 years is more than enough time to realise this.

I don't know anybody personally but I'm sure lots of people are still apposed to homosexuality, even religious people.

If there isn't any proof that it (homosexuality) is predisposed at birth then surely somebody could be apposed to it (homosexuality). I really don't know the research or findings into this matter. I think scientific views can and often do change or be revised upon new research and discovery.

We have to stop vilifying Islam as I feel this only adds to the problem and will ultimately push moderate Muslims towards extremism. Invading countries, bullshit wars and satire don't seem to be doing anything other than perpetuating the problem.

I would've preferred to see multi cultural marches side by side with our more moderate Muslims in the west as a show of defiance and solidarity, than a staged photo opportunity for our illustrious world leaders. Many of which are hypocrites of the highest order.

We have to wonder who benefits from all of this?.

Sorry. Are you saying you are not sure whether someone is born gay or chooses to be?

Yep. He's saying its a choice.

SMFH.

 

[jayblue]

There is no answer to this problem with these idiots. It will just roll on and on for decades of unrest. The problem is quite simple though but it's too late to rectify. We are not compatible. We were never meant to live together. It is impossible to reason with anybody who's life revolves around a book.

 

[Anonymous]

Do I fuck as like.

And you stated in the post I replied to that they didn't feel secure and accepted as they've only been here a short time.

Well they are a fucking great sight more secure and able to practice their religion in Europe than Christians are in areas of the Middle East. Christmas, Easter, Jesus, Judaism cannot be taught in Qatar. Teachers aren't even allowed to mention Greek or Roman gods in history.

Try teaching about Ancient Egyptians and why The Pyramids were built without saying how Pharows were deitified.

I don't think all individuals and communities are the same. It's just some are more tolerant than others and during my experience, Islam has the thinnest skin and is the least tolerant of those religions I have come into contact with.

That just sounds like "they do it as well." It doesn't make it right though does it?.

How long have schools taught about evolution in the UK. There was a time when only creationism would've been taught. School/education is a church invention.

That's the thing with secularism and science though isn't it. It changes with facts and evidence.

Unlike Islam, and Islamic States which refuse to move with the times. Hell, even the Pope says evolution is real.

If your point is saying "give them time as they are behind europe in this" then I'd agree, they are. But the sooner some see that Islam isn't the only way then nothing will change.

You really should live under Sharia law though, it's a real eye opener.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Give things time.

Islam can be moderate, I think we see that in the UK, I see Muslim women everyday without burkas, I have friends who are less devout than others, most are considerably less devout than their parents. I consider this to be down to living in the UK, a synthesis has occurred where they can still be Islamic but in a western setting.

Obviously if you live under sharia law then you see it in it's extreme. I just don't believe the aim of 99% of Muslims is to take over the world and impose sharia law anymore than we British want to take over the world. I am more concerned about the perceived good guys in all of this as the truth is it is them who already rule the world.

You could always move to a country where sharia law isn't the norm!. Isn't that what is usually said to foreigners?. "If you don't like it you can fuck off back to your own country." ;-p unless that is your country?, if that's the case.... You've had it.

 

[TCIB]

There is no answer to this problem with these idiots. It will just roll on and on for decades of unrest. The problem is quite simple though but it's too late to rectify. We are not compatible. We were never meant to live together. It is impossible to reason with anybody who's life revolves around a book.

How very dare you...

[bigimg]http://i1.minus.com/i4gmElw0u3swk.jpg[/bigimg]

The book of lemur is the only truth!

 

[Anonymous]

But any sensible person would agree that homosexuality being illegal was absurd and the law was rightfully changed over 50 years ago. Do you know anyone who believes that was not the right decision and shouldn't be the case worldwide. And presuming your answer is no surely 50 years is more than enough time to realise this.

I don't know anybody personally but I'm sure lots of people are still apposed to homosexuality, even religious people.

If there isn't any proof that it (homosexuality) is predisposed at birth then surely somebody could be apposed to it (homosexuality). I really don't know the research or findings into this matter. I think scientific views can and often do change or be revised upon new research and discovery.

We have to stop vilifying Islam as I feel this only adds to the problem and will ultimately push moderate Muslims towards extremism. Invading countries, bullshit wars and satire don't seem to be doing anything other than perpetuating the problem.

I would've preferred to see multi cultural marches side by side with our more moderate Muslims in the west as a show of defiance and solidarity, than a staged photo opportunity for our illustrious world leaders. Many of which are hypocrites of the highest order.

We have to wonder who benefits from all of this?.

Perhaps we could all simply unite in vilifying murdering Islamic Jihadist scum?

We have, but after events like this the next logical step is usually to try and arrive at a solution to ensure shit like this is less likely to happen again in the future.

Do you have any input into this matter?, or are you still trapped behind enemy lines on the Internet battlefield in the fight against jihadists from behind your keyboard?.

 

[i kne albert davy]

There is no answer to this problem with these idiots. It will just roll on and on for decades of unrest. The problem is quite simple though but it's too late to rectify. We are not compatible. We were never meant to live together. It is impossible to reason with anybody who's life revolves around a book.

Bit of Rudyard Kipling East is East and West is West and never shall the twain meet or something to that effect.

 

[Balti]

I don't know anybody personally but I'm sure lots of people are still apposed to homosexuality, even religious people.

If there isn't any proof that it (homosexuality) is predisposed at birth then surely somebody could be apposed to it (homosexuality). I really don't know the research or findings into this matter. I think scientific views can and often do change or be revised upon new research and discovery.

We have to stop vilifying Islam as I feel this only adds to the problem and will ultimately push moderate Muslims towards extremism. Invading countries, bullshit wars and satire don't seem to be doing anything other than perpetuating the problem.

I would've preferred to see multi cultural marches side by side with our more moderate Muslims in the west as a show of defiance and solidarity, than a staged photo opportunity for our illustrious world leaders. Many of which are hypocrites of the highest order.

We have to wonder who benefits from all of this?.

Perhaps we could all simply unite in vilifying murdering Islamic Jihadist scum?

We have, but after events like this the next logical step is usually to try and arrive at a solution to ensure shit like this is less likely to happen again in the future.

Do you have any input into this matter?, or are you still trapped behind enemy lines on the Internet battlefield in the fight against jihadists from behind your keyboard?.

you're right it would have been great to see moderate muslims marching in force to condemn these atrocities

you know, like they do when someone writes summat in a book that they don't like who clearly needs to be murdered as well the absolute swine

 

[mackenzie]

There is no answer to this problem with these idiots. It will just roll on and on for decades of unrest. The problem is quite simple though but it's too late to rectify. We are not compatible. We were never meant to live together. It is impossible to reason with anybody who's life revolves around a book.

I think that's one of the saddest posts I've ever read

 

[aguero93:20]

There is no answer to this problem with these idiots. It will just roll on and on for decades of unrest. The problem is quite simple though but it's too late to rectify. We are not compatible. We were never meant to live together. It is impossible to reason with anybody who's life revolves around a book.

Filed under Genocide.