Should National Service be mandatory ?

ChicagoBlue said:
The average age of a first time home buyer is increasing in the States, too. However, even in the late 90’s when I bought I was 35, married with 2 kids, and a new airline pilot with college loans and a minivan loan when we got our first house…with the absolute minimum down payment allowed. 2 yrs later, 9/11 happened, I took a 50% pay cut and lost my pension.

And???

We scrimped, saved, got out of debt as quickly as we could so we wouldn’t lose our house and, like millions of other people, lived on the ragged edge of “making it” for years!

And, my brother has a nice little house in Duki, which isn’t 300K, but it’s all he’ll ever need. On 35K, how much do you need for a deposit on a 300K house? Then, you set about doing it…or don’t and live with what YOU have settled for.

Much like the entirety of life, you just need to fight until the lights go out!
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That’s one if the main issues for me it’s peoples expectations, you can buy a house a lot cheaper but people don’t want to live in those areas so they try to go for something better but unfortunately that’s unobtainable right now, so they have a choice what they do is upto them. I built my way up like my parents did, yet my niece blows £1300 a month on rent to live opposite Wing Yip, she could’ve saved up and got a house in oldham area and been on the ladder but she wants that lifestyle, my nephew who’s sane age still lives at home and is saving having just got a job as a postman, their choices are different but I think one will end up in a better situation.
 
bluethrunthru said:
can you explain the differences between the L85A1 and the A3 variant? Are you as fit now as you were 25 years ago?
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Looking online they look similar, the magazine goes in the same place the trigger is in the same place as is the cocking handle, I remember my drills and I think within two days I’d know how to strip and clean it, firing it is a peace of piss. I can walk 8 miles in two hours, no I’m not as fit as I was 25 years ago but I’d give a few younger ones a run for their money.
 
Blue Maverick said:
I don’t think you get it, if war starts in Europe they won’t have a choice.
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I've asked in the other thread , how do you think russia are going to start a bigger war in europe. They aren't, not for a long time, they can barely sustain the one they did start.

There is no need for "national service" in that sense, though in many others there might be (health service, mending roads etc).

Also as I've seen asked in here already, who exactly is going to pay for all these people doing "national service" ?
 
For people to make a sacrifice of any kind they need to believe it'll be worth it in the end (for them or for their children); they also need to believe it's in common cause and that we're in it together.

For the last 40 odd years we've been constantly bombarded with the idea that the individual is much much more important than the collective and that the acquisition of material wealth is the mark of success rather than any other aspect of character. As assets have massively outpaced labour we've also shown people that hard work and sacrifice typically won't get you your reward, it'll mostly enrich someone who is already wealthy. We've encouraged people to think of themselves as a brand and told them it's about selling themselves rather than giving of themselves. We've promoted bullshitters and blusterers and made just getting on with it deeply unfashionable. We've introduced technology that is explicitly designed to biologically trigger short term instant gratification in preference to anything more substantive, and made it endemic in everyday life just so a small number of people can become exceptionally rich.

And then we wonder why there's probably going to be pushback to national service? Really?

If young people don't believe their country is worth fighting for or don't feel like they have a sufficient stake in that country to make it worth it, yes it could say something about them but maybe it says more about the country and society we've become?
 
threespires said:
For people to make a sacrifice of any kind they need to believe it'll be worth it in the end (for them or for their children); they also need to believe it's in common cause and that we're in it together.
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Self sacrifice doesn’t always have to be in the common cause. However, bring a productive member of society is a common cause that also pays off for the individual, it’s a twofer!

And, the thing about sacrifice is that, yes, you do want to believe it will result in a better tomorrow, but we don’t get to decide the future, so not all sacrifice pays off. That’s all part of life.
threespires said:
For the last 40 odd years we've been constantly bombarded with the idea that the individual is much much more important than the collective and that the acquisition of material wealth is the mark of success rather than any other aspect of character.
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Swallowing political doctrine as a substitute for self-belief and thinking for oneself is a bit of a cop out. Yes, the world owes you nothing and you’re expected to become self-sufficient and have pride in taking care of yourself and loved ones, but the social safety net provided in the UK is an eye wateringly generous back stop that should help you succeed, not pull you back from the effort.

Do YOU believe that “material wealth” is the mark of success? Or, is it the love of a good man/woman? The respect of your peers? A solid and reliable friend group?

Sure, there is a small element of material wealth associated with success, if you believe the financial security of your family is a goal, but it’s not all about flash, as I’ve stated previously. Indeed, I think the 24/7/365 diet of “reality TV” and entertainment “culture” is a disease that’s killing brains and lives in Britain. The fact that Big Brother and I’m a celebrity get me out of here, and the like, are so popular speaks to the slow death of whatever culture there remains. Lad culture is yet another disease, but what’s the cure, and did politics create that disease?
threespires said:
As assets have massively outpaced labour we've also shown people that hard work and sacrifice typically won't get you your reward, it'll mostly enrich someone who is already wealthy. We've encouraged people to think of themselves as a brand and told them it's about selling themselves rather than giving of themselves. We've promoted bullshitters and blusterers and made just getting on with it deeply unfashionable. We've introduced technology that is explicitly designed to biologically trigger short term instant gratification in preference to anything more substantive, and made it endemic in everyday life just so a small number of people can become exceptionally rich.
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Nah, that’s all a bunch of swallowed bollocks that soft minds use as an excuse for getting up, going to work, living within your means and saving a few bob for tomorrow!

People need to get their heads out of their arses and realize the people who win the life lottery actually worked to buy the ticket…it didn’t just happen for 99% of them!

And don’t get me started on the Kardashianization of the face (and body) of the British female! WTAF???
threespires said:
And then we wonder why there's probably going to be pushback to national service? Really?
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Again, it’s a mindset. That mindset can change lives…or it can give the middle finger to everything in life. Choices.
threespires said:
If young people don't believe their country is worth fighting for or don't feel like they have a sufficient stake in that country to make it worth it, yes it could say something about them but maybe it says more about the country and society we've become?
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Those young people are clueless and destined for the scrap heap of society. Maybe some positive change would help them get ahead, because what they’re doing and saying isn’t working for them, is it?!

The country and the society IS THEM TOMORROW. It us generations of “fuck this got a lark” attitudes that put Britain where it is…and yet tomorrow they’ll be blaming everyone else AGAIN!!

People need to buck the fuck up and take some personal responsibility for what they do 24/7/365 and stop bowling the world for their lives. And, if they need some perspective on how good they have it, maybe they could read a fucking book about life outside the First World Europe they were born into!

Most in Britain already won the genetic and geographic lottery, but the prize just wasn’t as big as they wanted, because they saw someone else on their £1,000 phone has more.

Boo fucking hoo!
 
On a side note, it appears clear to me that National Service is ABSOLUTELY needed in the UK, but the people who need it most are exactly the ones who will push back the hardest…and they wonder why they are walking the race in last place, but not getting the medals?!

Wasting my time on this thread now.
 
BlueRockape said:
I am reliant on no fucker especially you and you're elk I have worked hard and saved put 4 kids through university and don't need a soft **** like you to give me handouts
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Leave his elk out of this.


Bullwinke_J._Moose.png
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
I don’t think it would hurt any generation, it all depends on circumstance. I truly believe that our young ones would step up to the plate if needed, they just need leaders.
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If the Russians showed up on the coast of France tomorrow, would you honestly expect to be speaking English a few years from now? Do you think the youngsters of today are willing to sacrifice themselves in what was described as “the meat grinder”? I only ask because THAT is exactly the reason we are typing to each other in English right now!

All gave some and some gave all.

Does the British man of 18-35 who isn’t already in uniform have THAT in his locker today?

Let’s hope we never find out, because he hasn’t shown up in here yet, that’s for sure!
 
National Service?

We wouldn't kit them out properly. Maybe give them sharpened broom handles as weapons.

As it stands you could put the entire British Army, and the Royal Marines inside Wembley stadium and they wouldn't fill it.

The British military has been decimated by the politicians, I doubt we could even field a division if the shit hits the fan.
 
threespires said:
For people to make a sacrifice of any kind they need to believe it'll be worth it in the end (for them or for their children); they also need to believe it's in common cause and that we're in it together.

For the last 40 odd years we've been constantly bombarded with the idea that the individual is much much more important than the collective and that the acquisition of material wealth is the mark of success rather than any other aspect of character. As assets have massively outpaced labour we've also shown people that hard work and sacrifice typically won't get you your reward, it'll mostly enrich someone who is already wealthy. We've encouraged people to think of themselves as a brand and told them it's about selling themselves rather than giving of themselves. We've promoted bullshitters and blusterers and made just getting on with it deeply unfashionable. We've introduced technology that is explicitly designed to biologically trigger short term instant gratification in preference to anything more substantive, and made it endemic in everyday life just so a small number of people can become exceptionally rich.

And then we wonder why there's probably going to be pushback to national service? Really?

If young people don't believe their country is worth fighting for or don't feel like they have a sufficient stake in that country to make it worth it, yes it could say something about them but maybe it says more about the country and society we've become?
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I read something recently about how in WW2 the social insurance system was basically floated as a way of motivating the troops and getting them to feel like they’d have something to come back for that was worthwhile. And then within a few years of the war ending, the NHS was created and pensions were brought in. Almost as if making people feel like they’re part of a society encourages them to contribute.
 
It's remarkable to me how each older generation falls into the trap of believing that the current generation of young people are soft, lazy, dissolute, etc. I remember my grandfather telling me that old men in his tenement were always giving out about how WWII would be a disaster because the kids had grown up with running water or whatever.
 
WT86 said:
It's remarkable to me how each older generation falls into the trap of believing that the current generation of young people are soft, lazy, dissolute, etc. I remember my grandfather telling me that old men in his tenement were always giving out about how WWII would be a disaster because the kids had grown up with running water or whatever.
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One man’s “trap” is another man’s “seeing and believing.”

Walk around town, go in the bars, sit in on a classroom, and tell me you have ever been more concerned for the future of youth than you are today.

I’ll hopefully live long enough to see how they turn out, and can hope there is not the kind of challenge our forefathers faced to test them before then.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
One man’s “trap” is another man’s “seeing and believing.”

Walk around town, go in the bars, sit in on a classroom, and tell me you have ever been more concerned for the future of youth than you are today.

I’ll hopefully live long enough to see how they turn out, and can hope there is not the kind of challenge our forefathers faced to test them before then.
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I don't know. On one hand I get it, my office is near a major university. The students dress like idiots and it seems like every time I'm within earshot I'm overhearing something stupid. My wife does 20+ interviews a year at her job and I'm often assigned to mentor new hires at mine, and we get a lot of mileage out of how entitled and embarrassing they can be. But to me that's just being young and I think if I saw myself and my friends at that age I'd cringe too. The kids who make their way in the world learn from experience and get it together.
 
cleavers said:
I've asked in the other thread , how do you think russia are going to start a bigger war in europe. They aren't, not for a long time, they can barely sustain the one they did start.

There is no need for "national service" in that sense, though in many others there might be (health service, mending roads etc).

Also as I've seen asked in here already, who exactly is going to pay for all these people doing "national service" ?
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It will start in the baltics, Putin once Trump pulls the plug will push into a small Baltic state to see if NATO trigger article 5, if they don’t NATO is dead, if they do then they will pummel Russia out, however it’s what Putin does then, if he’s given a bloody nose does he walk away it will certainly end him, if he then goes full in id expect missile attacks along the borders of the Baltic’s maybe upto Sweden and Finland with the chance he may try and launch something further especially at us they hate us, then it’s what response do we do, launch into Russia deep and what with,then it’s quickly spirals.
 
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