ono
Well-Known Member
From watching the game yesterday and seeing Lingard, Rashford, Mata and Martial waltz through us with ease it, and after seeing Spurs, Leicester, West Ham etc all do the same thing at the Etihad it made me wonder how teams do this to us.
After a bit of re-watching it's clear to see that our problem lies firstly with the way that we press and secondly with the fact that when we utilise a midfield 2, we struggle to pick up runners, specifically attacking midfielders because we still try and press in the exact same manner as we do when we have a midfield 3.
It is clear to see that our defensive players and defensive minded midfield players are being told to press aggressively, meaning they should vacate their positions somewhat to intercept or tackle. We have all seen Otamendi do this to varying degrees of success (and failure) - Mahrez took advantage of it at the Etihad and Liverpool did a couple of times at Anfield.
When it works, it is a visually powerful thing to see. For example, Sevilla away and Kiev away, Fernandinho (in the Sevilla game) was exceptional with the number of aggressive interceptions he made, which lead to a counter. Fernando likewise against Kiev. Now, when you make these decision as part of a midfield central 3, you have a little bit more fall back as the team is more compact which means that the vacated space left by a interceptor is much smaller than it is when you have a lesser number of defensive players on the pitch.
However, when you are in a midfield 2 like yesterday there needs to be an adjustment or some sort of ban on this type of pressing where Fernandinho or Fernando (dependent on who is playing) try to engage or press on the half way line or even in the opponents half, because time and time again it causes us big problems. I've already gone over the Mahrez goal where a couple of players totally sold themselves -
If you rewatch you can see Fernandinho tries to press Kante on the half way line, and Otamendi steps into the midfield area to close down the space, totally selling himself in the process. That goal is totally stopped if Fernandinho or Otamendi simply contain the play.
Fast forward to the 2nd Spurs goal and again our midfield isn't really there. Yaya is outnumbered and loses the ball. Fernandinho was slightly behind him but not in a defensive position so there was space between our midfield and our defence. Considering at this point in the game we are playing a 4-4-2, there needs to be communication between Yaya and Fernandinho as one of them has to be responsible for the gap between themeselves and the backline. In this case, since Yaya is the ball carrier, it should be Fernandinho. Anyway, Lamela (who isn't being picked up by anybody) gets in the space and Otamendi engages, square on, only to have the ball played through him for Eriksen to score -
And this got me thinking back to other similar sort of goals we have conceded while playing with a midfield 2.
This is Moses at the Etihad in our 2-1 loss to West Ham. Once again, Fernandinho engages a West Ham player in his own half, who flicks the ball round him before running into the space behind him. Yaya isn't really concentrating and only reacts to the situation when the player is running past him. In turn this leads to a goal, although you could argue we still had enough players back to deal with the situation.
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Finally if you look back to the Rashford goal yesterday, you will see the exact same thing happen(if you freeze it to 4 seconds you will see the point i am about to make). Fernandinho again tries to engage the opposition in their own half. This time it is Mata and he is trying to press on to Mata's first touch with the hope of intercepting and springing a counter. This would be fantastic in a midfield 3, but in a midfield 2, it is suicide, especially since Mata is the one United player with a reliable first touch. Anyway, he brings it down, engages Fernandinho, plays a simple one-two around him and he is in, attacking the space vacated by Fernandinho. Toure can't react quick enough to cover as he is also in line with Fernandinho. To make matters worse Demichellis tries to aggressively win the ball back by going to ground, again without thought to what is behind him (a giant goal with only Joe Hart stood in it) and they score.
I could go on and on and this isn't a dig at Fernandinho, he isn't the problem at all. He is being left short handed whilst being asked to do too much. The same goes for Yaya in a 2 (he is expected to contribute to too many phases of play). It's a massive problem with the way we set up and how we do not adapt our pressing game or intercepting game when we go from a midfield 3 to a midfield 2. Fernandinho just happens to be at the heart of this post because he is probably the chief presser in the team and the hardest working player. What should actually happen in a 2 is we should show more patience in winning the ball back, containing the opposition which in turn might actually open up a bit of space behind their own backline (once they advance a little).
This is where Pellegrini should show his knowledge really. The fact that he still either informs the team to press like this, or allows them to continually do it regardless is absolutely criminal. Neither Fernandinho or Yaya are really disciplined enough to play in a 2. Yaya isn't defensively disciplined and Fernandinho isn't disciplined enough to stay in his position. His game is based around aggressively closing space. They both need a player to sit behind them to shield the back 4 so they can both get on with their normal games. This is why we instantly look more solid as soon as Fernando comes on or starts. Yaya's doesn't have to track back to his own box, and Fernandinho isn't punished by a missed interception (let's face it, he isn't going to have a 100% success ratio) - yet often against decent teams, Pellegrini is setting them both up in a midfield 2.
All that's happening at the minute against the decent sides is that they are drawing Fernandinho out of position to exploit the space behind him, which leads to a clear run at a totally reactionary defence. Yaya can't cover because he is either ahead of the ball or he is closer to closing down the other opposition midfielder (as per yesterday) and the result is we are got at time and time again. Funnily enough the non-stop running of Fernandinho contrasted with Yaya's 'laid back' running style, coupled with the fact that we are constantly sliced open leads people to believing that the fault solely lies with Yaya, for being 'lazy' when actually, the problem goes much deeper than that and actually still exists when he doesn't play.
Anyway, It has been happening all season and is one of the largest contributing factors to our lack of success against the better sides, especially when we have gone with a 2 man midfield. But Pellegrini seemingly hasn't noticed this and we will continue to play his brand of football which is totally at odds with the personnel on the pitch. Roll on next season eh.
After a bit of re-watching it's clear to see that our problem lies firstly with the way that we press and secondly with the fact that when we utilise a midfield 2, we struggle to pick up runners, specifically attacking midfielders because we still try and press in the exact same manner as we do when we have a midfield 3.
It is clear to see that our defensive players and defensive minded midfield players are being told to press aggressively, meaning they should vacate their positions somewhat to intercept or tackle. We have all seen Otamendi do this to varying degrees of success (and failure) - Mahrez took advantage of it at the Etihad and Liverpool did a couple of times at Anfield.
When it works, it is a visually powerful thing to see. For example, Sevilla away and Kiev away, Fernandinho (in the Sevilla game) was exceptional with the number of aggressive interceptions he made, which lead to a counter. Fernando likewise against Kiev. Now, when you make these decision as part of a midfield central 3, you have a little bit more fall back as the team is more compact which means that the vacated space left by a interceptor is much smaller than it is when you have a lesser number of defensive players on the pitch.
However, when you are in a midfield 2 like yesterday there needs to be an adjustment or some sort of ban on this type of pressing where Fernandinho or Fernando (dependent on who is playing) try to engage or press on the half way line or even in the opponents half, because time and time again it causes us big problems. I've already gone over the Mahrez goal where a couple of players totally sold themselves -
If you rewatch you can see Fernandinho tries to press Kante on the half way line, and Otamendi steps into the midfield area to close down the space, totally selling himself in the process. That goal is totally stopped if Fernandinho or Otamendi simply contain the play.
Fast forward to the 2nd Spurs goal and again our midfield isn't really there. Yaya is outnumbered and loses the ball. Fernandinho was slightly behind him but not in a defensive position so there was space between our midfield and our defence. Considering at this point in the game we are playing a 4-4-2, there needs to be communication between Yaya and Fernandinho as one of them has to be responsible for the gap between themeselves and the backline. In this case, since Yaya is the ball carrier, it should be Fernandinho. Anyway, Lamela (who isn't being picked up by anybody) gets in the space and Otamendi engages, square on, only to have the ball played through him for Eriksen to score -
And this got me thinking back to other similar sort of goals we have conceded while playing with a midfield 2.
This is Moses at the Etihad in our 2-1 loss to West Ham. Once again, Fernandinho engages a West Ham player in his own half, who flicks the ball round him before running into the space behind him. Yaya isn't really concentrating and only reacts to the situation when the player is running past him. In turn this leads to a goal, although you could argue we still had enough players back to deal with the situation.
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Finally if you look back to the Rashford goal yesterday, you will see the exact same thing happen(if you freeze it to 4 seconds you will see the point i am about to make). Fernandinho again tries to engage the opposition in their own half. This time it is Mata and he is trying to press on to Mata's first touch with the hope of intercepting and springing a counter. This would be fantastic in a midfield 3, but in a midfield 2, it is suicide, especially since Mata is the one United player with a reliable first touch. Anyway, he brings it down, engages Fernandinho, plays a simple one-two around him and he is in, attacking the space vacated by Fernandinho. Toure can't react quick enough to cover as he is also in line with Fernandinho. To make matters worse Demichellis tries to aggressively win the ball back by going to ground, again without thought to what is behind him (a giant goal with only Joe Hart stood in it) and they score.
I could go on and on and this isn't a dig at Fernandinho, he isn't the problem at all. He is being left short handed whilst being asked to do too much. The same goes for Yaya in a 2 (he is expected to contribute to too many phases of play). It's a massive problem with the way we set up and how we do not adapt our pressing game or intercepting game when we go from a midfield 3 to a midfield 2. Fernandinho just happens to be at the heart of this post because he is probably the chief presser in the team and the hardest working player. What should actually happen in a 2 is we should show more patience in winning the ball back, containing the opposition which in turn might actually open up a bit of space behind their own backline (once they advance a little).
This is where Pellegrini should show his knowledge really. The fact that he still either informs the team to press like this, or allows them to continually do it regardless is absolutely criminal. Neither Fernandinho or Yaya are really disciplined enough to play in a 2. Yaya isn't defensively disciplined and Fernandinho isn't disciplined enough to stay in his position. His game is based around aggressively closing space. They both need a player to sit behind them to shield the back 4 so they can both get on with their normal games. This is why we instantly look more solid as soon as Fernando comes on or starts. Yaya's doesn't have to track back to his own box, and Fernandinho isn't punished by a missed interception (let's face it, he isn't going to have a 100% success ratio) - yet often against decent teams, Pellegrini is setting them both up in a midfield 2.
All that's happening at the minute against the decent sides is that they are drawing Fernandinho out of position to exploit the space behind him, which leads to a clear run at a totally reactionary defence. Yaya can't cover because he is either ahead of the ball or he is closer to closing down the other opposition midfielder (as per yesterday) and the result is we are got at time and time again. Funnily enough the non-stop running of Fernandinho contrasted with Yaya's 'laid back' running style, coupled with the fact that we are constantly sliced open leads people to believing that the fault solely lies with Yaya, for being 'lazy' when actually, the problem goes much deeper than that and actually still exists when he doesn't play.
Anyway, It has been happening all season and is one of the largest contributing factors to our lack of success against the better sides, especially when we have gone with a 2 man midfield. But Pellegrini seemingly hasn't noticed this and we will continue to play his brand of football which is totally at odds with the personnel on the pitch. Roll on next season eh.
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