BoyataIsGod
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- 5 Jan 2010
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- 120
Merlin. That is all.
Spurs (A) - Post-Match Thread
- Thread starter SebastianBlue
- Start date
WestGorton
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- 21 Jan 2010
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- 10,472
Its close for sure.
LesBleuMiserable
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- 11 May 2011
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- 2,986
For me a deserved second, Yaya could single handedly do things on the pitch I’ve not seen another player do bar fat Ronaldo when he played for Internazionale
balotellishaircut
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I’ll never forget Yaya sprinting past Kyle Walker and squaring it for Aguero in that 6-0 demolition of Spurs, absolutely magnificent.
StillBluessinceHydeRoad
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I'm not arguing because I haven't seen enough fo him or Spurs to say but I was very impressed yesterday.
Totally agree. A real game changer when things weren’t going to plan he could get hold of it and sort it out
If he had been on the pitch all the game v QPR don’t think we’d of struggled
LangleyBlue1970
Well-Known Member
Is that all you do? Quote with 'lol' or call people with different opinions to yours as dipper's?
Are you 12??
ChicagoBlue
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- 10 Jan 2009
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- 16,555
Tried to stay off and get myself some perspective, but my feelings haven’t changed. Apologies for not reading the previous 130 odd pages.
Domination of the ball is not a statistic that wins games. Penetration with the ball does.
The tactics we currently employ are decades old, and at least 2 years past their sell by date in the Premier League...unless we are literally almost perfect. Sadly, there is no Plan B, no forward to cross the ball to while looking to pick up second balls.
Peps game is moving the ball to move the opposition, to create the space to exploit.
There are 3 key factors missing from that equation today:
1) Teams play a 10 man defence (1-5-4) to close those spaces, and
2) We move the ball too slowly to exploit the spaces that MAY have been there before they collapsed into their defensive shell.
3) IF we do find ourselves breaching that first line of defence, squeezing between the lines, we are STILL looking for another inch perfect pass to lay it on for someone else.
We STILL do not know how to defend the 8/10 slot.
On goal #1, Cancelo looked more concerned with Aurier than Son, and £100M+ of centre backs BOTH got sucked in to Kane when he dropped off, leaving the entire field in behind them wide open. Cancelo vs Son with a 5 yard start for Son is no contest. Throw in Ederson once again defending no man’s land and it’s 1-0, with one pass, one touch, one shot.
1 shot, 1 goal. Typical City.
On goal #2, we are attacking. Mahrez lazily wanders in from the right wing, where Walker has joined him, and plays a loose square ball. We have committed players to a slow, if not stagnant, attack and thus KEEPING THE BALL is required. Sloppy pass and they’re away. A 3 on 3 becomes a 4 on 3 as KDB can’t catch Lo Celso down our right. One looks for EITHER Walker getting back (I think he was still in their half when the ball went in!) or a Centre Back coming across to close him down or even the DM sliding across. Nope...wide open down our right, into the box, slotted through the legs, game over!
Oh wait, no...maybe time for a sub???!!!
I’m not sure how many people it takes to show Pep the stats...
...but it’s EVERY GAME NOW FOR TWO YEARS!
The “stats” say it must have been a 4-0, or maybe 3-1 AT WORST, but it’s the same story every time the “Rondo in and around the box” doesn’t pay off!
Smash & Grab!
2 shots, 2 goals!
The build up is so slow, there is virtually zero chance of getting in behind. Yesterday, when we tried to slot the ball inside the full back for the winger or attacking full back, it was either misread, too tight, or simply a shit ball that gave the player no chance.
Against teams we know will sit in and break, we over expose ourselves, because we FEEL like we are dominating them in their space. Average field position for almost every game has our deepest defender in their half and our midfield camped around a 20-30m semi-circle around their goal.
However, the key word is CAMPED!
By the time we have collapsed them into two banks (6-3 yesterday), we have not only removed the spaces in which we want to play, but we have made those spaces easier to defend, because every team knows the ball is staying on the ground and we are going to try to pass-pass-dribble our way through.
As a defender against that, you don’t need precision, you need a touch, a bobble, a poor pass or uncontrolled dribble and you will successfully defend it.
Throw that repetitive method of attack at an organized defence and it’s unlikely to yield results, especially if no one is even looking to kick a ball back out to the edge of the box for a shot through the crowded box.
Our game has been to exploit the whole “defend the box” mentality, by getting players around it for the cut back or cross along the 6 yard line. Did we have a single attempt at that yesterday, or IF we got into that position did the winger feel the need to beat the player over and over and over again, or simply run it out of play (!!!) rather than whip it in?
We need to put Rondo to bed for a few weeks. It’s engrained in the players to the point they have forgotten everything else.
Instead, we need to start moving the ball around for a shot from the edge of the box. Once you start to demand being closed down there, the gaps start to open for either the shot OR the blind pass...or was David Silva the only player good enough to do that?
Back to basics.
A goalkeeper who doesn’t see every ball within 30m of his goal as a challenge.
Full backs who put as much effort into defending as attacking.
Centre backs talking about who is going and who is dropping, and know how to scream at midfielders who are not tracking their runners in the 8/10 slots...which is where our weak underbelly is and has been for at least 2.25 seasons now.
A midfield that understands their PRIMARY goal is to dominate the opposition midfield and control the game, not just be the 4th, 5th and 6th attacker. Also, track their runner on the counter attack. If you’re too knackered to do that for 90 minutes, take a look at yourself and where you’re expending your effort, because our whole game is about knackering the opposition by chasing the ball we own.
A forward line who doesn’t pass up the opportunity to shoot on sight and, instead, looks to either dribble, head down through a 6 man wall or look to pass the ball through a thicket of legs to someone else, so they can do the same! A forward line that takes a chance on a shot and is constantly looking for the deflection, the keepers parry, etc...
Lastly, a manager who steps back from Cruyff and takes a look at how Fergie, Shankly, Klopp, Mourinho, and even Wenger approached the game. Is there NOTHING TO LEARN from decades of success managers in Britain?
Make no mistake, I have never personally seen football as good as Pep’s City in full flow. On our day, we have the ability to easily score 10 goals. However, other managers see those days, too, and they set up their teams to frustrate, nullify, and maybe nick a set piece goal. The good managers with the good teams set them up to counter attack us at speed, because we have shown the world it is our Achilles Heel.
In addition, IMHO, football has moved on from the 5’ 8” player being a game changer, unless he is absolutely world class. Today, the game is about athleticism and power combined with technique, where technique is not always the #1 attribute, but a perfect compliment to the physical presence the player brings to bear on the game.
There are obvious exceptions, with Messi and David Silva immediately springing to mind, but from there the list trails off dramatically...and those are yesterday’s players!
Today, 5’10” is minimum height for a player in almost any position, with 6’ being an ideal. Throw in a gym-honed body and lungs that don’t burn until the 85th minute, at the earliest. THAT is the new generation of players that will dominate football going forward. They will be the foundation of all clubs, allowing that 5’7” wizard to play in the spaces on occasion.
We live in the age of defend and counter, defend and counter, not dominate but show your arse when you lose the ball!
We are a lightweight team. We do not physically match up to the top teams, either in England or Europe, and it’s beginning to peel back the veneer of supposed Pep Ball invincibility. Look at Bielsa. He’s taken a £100M team from the Championship and turned them into a team that went toe to toe against us and ran us ragged.
In short, we have a world class squad for playing a certain way. From here, they need to be COACHED on how to play against threats.
When Son scored, you could see Pep making it clear they’d talked about this but still fallen for it in the 5th minute. That’s frustrating against a strong club. But, it changed absolutely nothing, because we came with Plan A, and by God, we are going to stick with it until the end!
It is clear to me the core players are absolutely knackered, or injured, and others that are playing are carrying knocks. Others seem simply befuddled as to what the Plan A is when they get the ball and play their own game, in their own heads, rather than a cohesive, well thought out plan that they fit into.
For me, it’s time to play a 4-4-2/4-2-4, with defenders defending, 2 defensive minded midfielders and two attacking midfielders who can join the attack. It still provides us with a 6 man attacking “shell,” but it also allows us to transition into a 6 man defensive shell when we lose the ball, while expecting the 4 to close it down and stop the counterattack.
That would mean not always losing two players to hog the touchline, and would mean using an extra midfielder for more defensive purposes, but needs must, because we are now 5 points behind the leaders IF we win our game in hand.
Good luck to us all!
Domination of the ball is not a statistic that wins games. Penetration with the ball does.
The tactics we currently employ are decades old, and at least 2 years past their sell by date in the Premier League...unless we are literally almost perfect. Sadly, there is no Plan B, no forward to cross the ball to while looking to pick up second balls.
Peps game is moving the ball to move the opposition, to create the space to exploit.
There are 3 key factors missing from that equation today:
1) Teams play a 10 man defence (1-5-4) to close those spaces, and
2) We move the ball too slowly to exploit the spaces that MAY have been there before they collapsed into their defensive shell.
3) IF we do find ourselves breaching that first line of defence, squeezing between the lines, we are STILL looking for another inch perfect pass to lay it on for someone else.
We STILL do not know how to defend the 8/10 slot.
On goal #1, Cancelo looked more concerned with Aurier than Son, and £100M+ of centre backs BOTH got sucked in to Kane when he dropped off, leaving the entire field in behind them wide open. Cancelo vs Son with a 5 yard start for Son is no contest. Throw in Ederson once again defending no man’s land and it’s 1-0, with one pass, one touch, one shot.
1 shot, 1 goal. Typical City.
On goal #2, we are attacking. Mahrez lazily wanders in from the right wing, where Walker has joined him, and plays a loose square ball. We have committed players to a slow, if not stagnant, attack and thus KEEPING THE BALL is required. Sloppy pass and they’re away. A 3 on 3 becomes a 4 on 3 as KDB can’t catch Lo Celso down our right. One looks for EITHER Walker getting back (I think he was still in their half when the ball went in!) or a Centre Back coming across to close him down or even the DM sliding across. Nope...wide open down our right, into the box, slotted through the legs, game over!
Oh wait, no...maybe time for a sub???!!!
I’m not sure how many people it takes to show Pep the stats...
...but it’s EVERY GAME NOW FOR TWO YEARS!
The “stats” say it must have been a 4-0, or maybe 3-1 AT WORST, but it’s the same story every time the “Rondo in and around the box” doesn’t pay off!
Smash & Grab!
2 shots, 2 goals!
The build up is so slow, there is virtually zero chance of getting in behind. Yesterday, when we tried to slot the ball inside the full back for the winger or attacking full back, it was either misread, too tight, or simply a shit ball that gave the player no chance.
Against teams we know will sit in and break, we over expose ourselves, because we FEEL like we are dominating them in their space. Average field position for almost every game has our deepest defender in their half and our midfield camped around a 20-30m semi-circle around their goal.
However, the key word is CAMPED!
By the time we have collapsed them into two banks (6-3 yesterday), we have not only removed the spaces in which we want to play, but we have made those spaces easier to defend, because every team knows the ball is staying on the ground and we are going to try to pass-pass-dribble our way through.
As a defender against that, you don’t need precision, you need a touch, a bobble, a poor pass or uncontrolled dribble and you will successfully defend it.
Throw that repetitive method of attack at an organized defence and it’s unlikely to yield results, especially if no one is even looking to kick a ball back out to the edge of the box for a shot through the crowded box.
Our game has been to exploit the whole “defend the box” mentality, by getting players around it for the cut back or cross along the 6 yard line. Did we have a single attempt at that yesterday, or IF we got into that position did the winger feel the need to beat the player over and over and over again, or simply run it out of play (!!!) rather than whip it in?
We need to put Rondo to bed for a few weeks. It’s engrained in the players to the point they have forgotten everything else.
Instead, we need to start moving the ball around for a shot from the edge of the box. Once you start to demand being closed down there, the gaps start to open for either the shot OR the blind pass...or was David Silva the only player good enough to do that?
Back to basics.
A goalkeeper who doesn’t see every ball within 30m of his goal as a challenge.
Full backs who put as much effort into defending as attacking.
Centre backs talking about who is going and who is dropping, and know how to scream at midfielders who are not tracking their runners in the 8/10 slots...which is where our weak underbelly is and has been for at least 2.25 seasons now.
A midfield that understands their PRIMARY goal is to dominate the opposition midfield and control the game, not just be the 4th, 5th and 6th attacker. Also, track their runner on the counter attack. If you’re too knackered to do that for 90 minutes, take a look at yourself and where you’re expending your effort, because our whole game is about knackering the opposition by chasing the ball we own.
A forward line who doesn’t pass up the opportunity to shoot on sight and, instead, looks to either dribble, head down through a 6 man wall or look to pass the ball through a thicket of legs to someone else, so they can do the same! A forward line that takes a chance on a shot and is constantly looking for the deflection, the keepers parry, etc...
Lastly, a manager who steps back from Cruyff and takes a look at how Fergie, Shankly, Klopp, Mourinho, and even Wenger approached the game. Is there NOTHING TO LEARN from decades of success managers in Britain?
Make no mistake, I have never personally seen football as good as Pep’s City in full flow. On our day, we have the ability to easily score 10 goals. However, other managers see those days, too, and they set up their teams to frustrate, nullify, and maybe nick a set piece goal. The good managers with the good teams set them up to counter attack us at speed, because we have shown the world it is our Achilles Heel.
In addition, IMHO, football has moved on from the 5’ 8” player being a game changer, unless he is absolutely world class. Today, the game is about athleticism and power combined with technique, where technique is not always the #1 attribute, but a perfect compliment to the physical presence the player brings to bear on the game.
There are obvious exceptions, with Messi and David Silva immediately springing to mind, but from there the list trails off dramatically...and those are yesterday’s players!
Today, 5’10” is minimum height for a player in almost any position, with 6’ being an ideal. Throw in a gym-honed body and lungs that don’t burn until the 85th minute, at the earliest. THAT is the new generation of players that will dominate football going forward. They will be the foundation of all clubs, allowing that 5’7” wizard to play in the spaces on occasion.
We live in the age of defend and counter, defend and counter, not dominate but show your arse when you lose the ball!
We are a lightweight team. We do not physically match up to the top teams, either in England or Europe, and it’s beginning to peel back the veneer of supposed Pep Ball invincibility. Look at Bielsa. He’s taken a £100M team from the Championship and turned them into a team that went toe to toe against us and ran us ragged.
In short, we have a world class squad for playing a certain way. From here, they need to be COACHED on how to play against threats.
When Son scored, you could see Pep making it clear they’d talked about this but still fallen for it in the 5th minute. That’s frustrating against a strong club. But, it changed absolutely nothing, because we came with Plan A, and by God, we are going to stick with it until the end!
It is clear to me the core players are absolutely knackered, or injured, and others that are playing are carrying knocks. Others seem simply befuddled as to what the Plan A is when they get the ball and play their own game, in their own heads, rather than a cohesive, well thought out plan that they fit into.
For me, it’s time to play a 4-4-2/4-2-4, with defenders defending, 2 defensive minded midfielders and two attacking midfielders who can join the attack. It still provides us with a 6 man attacking “shell,” but it also allows us to transition into a 6 man defensive shell when we lose the ball, while expecting the 4 to close it down and stop the counterattack.
That would mean not always losing two players to hog the touchline, and would mean using an extra midfielder for more defensive purposes, but needs must, because we are now 5 points behind the leaders IF we win our game in hand.
Good luck to us all!
BillCarlisle
Well-Known Member
I've now spent 24 hours cooling down from last night's game. I can only judge where we are in comparison to this time last year. 12 months ago next Saturday I stood in St James' Park and watched us totally dominate an ultra defensive Newcastle team and only come away with a 2-2 draw. It felt like a defeat. Little has changed apart from the obvious fact that we scored 2 that day because we hardly look like doing that right now. We have regressed, no question in my mind.
The sooner this gets sorted out, the better.
The sooner this gets sorted out, the better.