Spurs thread 2019/20

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Didn’t ignore anything. Genuinely hadn’t seen your first post. So I went back and found it. Sorry to have kept you waiting.

Re aggro, I thought pointing out every time a City fan had shouted a bad word at a Spurs fan over the past 40 years was a fair response to others on here pointing out every time a Spurs fan had flicked a v sign at City fans over the same period.



I totally understand where you’re coming from. But I’ve also tried to understand where Levy is coming from. Like all of us, he is reading the tea leaves and trying to predict what is likely to happen. While everyone else was talking in terms of a few months’ disruption, I suspect that Levy was making provision for the worst case scenario of a year or more of virtually nil income - in which case, the time to act was immediately.

On the matter of player salaries, I’m sure you understand that negotiating a significant cut or a deferral will have been by far Levy’s biggest priority, long before the decision to furlough non playing staff. But it quickly became apparent that, unlike Barcelona or Juventus players for instance, players at the big clubs in England weren’t going to play their part to anything like the same degree. Likely on the insistence of the brainless PFA. As I said in the article, if Levy had quickly managed to agree a substantial wage cut and / or deferral with the players, I think it very possible that he would have reversed the decision to furlough staff regardless of external pressure.



Good effort, mate, but the analogy doesn’t work! While I fully agree with your point about individual members of the public spending far less (it’s my experience too), it’s not at all the same for clubs, is it? The biggest of them still have to shell out tens of millions every month. Sure, they’ve made a few comparatively minor savings, by not hosting games etc, but nothing that can begin to mitigate the devastion wreaked on revenues.

As to last year’s profits, you do realise that Spurs have since spent £130m net on transfers?



What money is Sky or BBC throwing at clubs right now? My understanding is that payments are frozen until games restart - which is why the clubs are desperate to play out the season and get the money rolling in again.



Hopefully already answered this.



To be clear, I didn’t compare Spurs to Greggs. The only connection that they and all the other bigger companies have is that they have seen revenues take a massive hit as a consequence of COVID19.

And you’re quite right that Greggs don’t have staff members earning £250K per week. Lucky them in the current circumstances, eh?



I certainly appreciate you having read through to the end. Thank you. I respect but disagree with your opinion. But your last line..........I can see why you wrote it, because it does make for a neat ending, but I have to say that it comes across to me as a rather forced non sequitur. There are lots of legitimate criticisms to be levelled at Levy in this affair. But having a closed mind is unlikely to be one of them. As I said in the article, Levy will not have taken the decision to furlough staff lightly. For all that he has a reputation for ferociously trying to keep player wages down, he also has a reputation within the club for having previously been an excellent employer for the non playing staff.

Regardless that Levy might well have been wrong to furlough staff, he will only have done so because he believed it to be vital to the long term wellbeing of the club and, therefore, everyone who depends upon it for their employment.
I won’t bore people on here by going through this piece by piece again but will say this - much like Jamie Carragher, Phil Thompson, John Aldridge or Ryan Giggs whenever they are asked their opinion on football matters and give some deeply thought out response that ultimately ends with a Liverpool or United player being the best there ever was - you’ve gone to great lengths to find a way to defend Levy and give him the benefit of the doubt but at no point do you consider that the truth may be that he’s a tight **** who doesn’t give a flying fuck about the non playing staff.
 
I won’t bore people on here by going through this piece by piece again but will say this - much like Jamie Carragher, Phil Thompson, John Aldridge or Ryan Giggs whenever they are asked their opinion on football matters and give some deeply thought out response that ultimately ends with a Liverpool or United player being the best there ever was - you’ve gone to great lengths to find a way to defend Levy and give him the benefit of the doubt but at no point do you consider that the truth may be that he’s a tight **** who doesn’t give a flying fuck about the non playing staff.

I could just as easily throw that logic back at you and everyone else who has been hurling abuse at Levy.

I repeat, it’s not that I believe Levy’s critics to be categorically wrong; it’s that I cannot agree that they are categorically right.
 
Just some understanding on how Spurs taking advantage of the furlough scheme is in any way similar to a parent being advised to fit their own oxygen mask before that of their child in the event of a loss of cabin pressure.

If you could go on to explain how Spurs and Greggs are comparable businesses as well, that'd be great.

Steak bakes are gorgeous and successful whereas Spurs?
 
Evening Jim, you are doing a sterling job defending Daniel..

You are clearly passionate about Spuds and have gone to great lengths in both, explaining your clubs position and in batting away any criticism re the decision Spuds initially made to furlough staff..

At the end of the day, Danny changed his mind, Spuds are still in business and staff are still being paid..

This raises the question, 'Did Spuds actually need Government assistance to pay their staff'?

The obvious answer is.. No..

Why then apply for a Government handout?

Having a Stadium and multi million pound players to pay for is not an acceptable answer..

Bank loans can be deferred as can player salaries if approached in the right manner..

The real story here is one of an opportunist businessman getting his fingers caught in the till..!

However, I'm not as emotionally connected to Spuds as you are and I can actually see the wood from the trees..!

If Spuds were as desperate for the money as you make them out to be they wouldn’t have changed their mind, no matter how severe the outside pressures they faced at the time were..!


And therein lies the answer..!
 
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Evening Jim, you are doing a sterling job defending Daniel..

You are clearly passionate about Spuds and have gone to great lengths in both, explaining your clubs position and in batting away any criticism re the decision Spuds initially made to furlough staff..

At the end of the day, Danny changed his mind, Spuds are still in business and staff are still being paid..

This raises the question, 'Did Spuds actually need Government assistance to pay their staff'?

The obvious answer is.. No..

Why then apply for a Government handout?

Having a Stadium and multi million pound players to pay for is not an acceptable answer..

Bank loans can be deferred as can player salaries if approached in the right manner..

The real story here is one of an opportunist businessman getting his fingers caught in the till..!

However, I'm not as emotionally connected to Spuds as you are and I can actually see the wood from the trees..!

If Spuds were as desperate for the money as you make them out to be they wouldn’t have changed their mind, no matter how severe the outside pressures they faced at the time were..!


And therein lies the answer..!

Good morning, Bill.

To say that Spurs reversing their decision to furlough staff proves beyond doubt that they were just being greedy seems like confirmation bias on your part, I'm afraid. Reversing the decision doesn't actually prove anything other than that the backlash had become even costlier than not furloughing staff. At the risk of repeating myself, despite Daniel Levy's reputation for being tight with player wages, he has a good reputation within the club for being a conscientious employer for the non playing staff. He didn't make the decision for shits and giggles.

Until the COVID19 crisis is safely behind us, it's far too early to say what any club should or shouldn't have done. But if the suspicion or expectation is that hard times are coming, you tighten your belt now, right? You don't wait until it's too late. What we do know is that, more than any other club (and by some margin), the cornerstone of Spurs' business plan is the use of its primary asset - the stadium. And since full and proper use of stadiums will be among the very last ways that life returns to normal, it means that Spurs will likely suffer the biggest financial hit of any club. All of which is exacerbated by the fact that, at a daunting £637m, they are carrying considerably more debt than any other club.

We don't know what financial pressures Spurs are under. We don't know to what extent their creditors are calling the shots. With respect to COVID19, we don't know what is going to happen tomorrow, let alone in a year or two year's time. And given that there is so much that we don't and cannot know, those who have been ceaselessly and self righteously churning out moral certainties should expect to be challenged. That's all I've been doing. I hate to have to repeat myself yet again but........it's not that I believe the critics to be categorically wrong; it's that I can't agree that they are categorically right.
 
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Think you’ve forgotten, or hugely underestimated the size of, the pie slice for “To trigger citykev”.
 
Think you’ve forgotten, or hugely underestimated the size of, the pie slice for “To trigger citykev”.
Much as I’d like to take credit for that pie chart, it’s not my work.

I found it on a website called “My Eyes Have Seen Two League Cups in 29 Years”.
 
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