tbh, if Cavani isn't good enough to make you think it isn't a risk, then there is pretty much no striker that isn't a risk. I feel Martinez is a good option as he is in his prime, strong, physical, looks like he would be suited to the PL. If Forza's info is true that we are not in Cavani anymore (which is a big possibility with that massive price tag and the fact that maybe his #1 option is Madrid) then there aren't many options. Do we even need this clinical striker though? Look at Bayern, Mandzukic, Gomez and Pizarro are hardly the biggest names in the striker department, and the most that any one of them got this season was like 21 (Mandzu). Jovetic and Martinez both seem like decent options for our striker purchase this summer, both would be far less expensive than Cavani as well.sam-caddick said:
Stevan Jovetic
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sam-caddick said:
You are probably right on Martinez plus he is a year older than Cavani and Porto might get ideas that he is worth the same as Cavani. As for Jovetic it is versatility that impresses me, his finishing can be worked on similar to what Arsenal did with van Persie. If we are interested and sign him for £25m then it would be very good business from us.
Silva, Yaya, Milner, Nasri and Isco have each reached double figures once in their careers. Fernandinho twice, but not for the last five seasons or so.NoahCity said:
Robben, Muller, and Ribery have done it every season they've played for Bayern. Gotze just did it for Dortmund. Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Shakiri and Martinez got 30 between them.
We don't have goalscoring midfielders like Bayern. Being capable of scoring is totally different to being reliable.
Neville Kneville
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pee dubya said:
Some of the players you mention there are more like forwards than midfielders.
Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Shakiri and Martinez scored 20 league goals between them in Bayern's title winning side.
Nasri, Silva, Toure, & Milner also scored 20 in our title winning side. Adam Johnson got 6 & he was pretty much a sub.
Bayern have got more attacking mids than us, we had more strikers. You can only play 11.
If you compare Robben & Ribery to Tevez & Balotelli, then the comparison looks a little more balanced.
Neville Kneville said:
It does not work like this either as you mix central and offensive midfield...
If you take the strikers. Mandzukic, Pizarro, Gomez - occupying the one striker position in the 4-2-3-1 scored together 32.
Müller, Ribery, Robben, Kroos and Shaqiri - who occupied the three offensive midfield positions -- scored together 38 - that is 12.7 goals per position in the offensive midfield.
Schweinsteiger, Gustavo, Martinez, Tymoschuk, Can - all part of the central or defensive midfield - 2 positions in the 4-2-3-1 - scored together 16 - that is 8 per position.
The defenders and fullbacks scored 8 goals together - that is 2 goals per position.
So Bayern's striker scored 32 goals.
Each of the three offensive midfielders scored 12.7 goals - or together 38.
Each of the two defensive/Central midfielders scored 8 goals - or together 16.
Each of the four defenders scored 2 goals - or together 8.
Bluesiam
Well-Known Member
NoahCity said:
Took the words out of my mouth. Let's hope there will be a lot more goals from midfield under Pellegrini
Jovetic, while nowhere near as prolific as Cavani, is much more versatile. If we are to play a 4-3-3 system next season (Ferran and Txiki's preferred formation) then Cavani is not a realistic option. Signing him would mean either dropping Aguero to the bench, or playing him out wide, where he's far less effective.
Jovetic is capable of playing as a wide forward or behind the striker. This would mean he could play wide of Aguero as part of a front three, behind him in a 4-2-3-1, or alongside him in a 4-2-2-2. All of this for half the price of Cavani. Having said that, I think signing Cavani would win us the league, Jovetic may struggle in the Premier League and would certainly be a gamble.
In short, we should have signed Hazard when we had the chance.
Jovetic is capable of playing as a wide forward or behind the striker. This would mean he could play wide of Aguero as part of a front three, behind him in a 4-2-3-1, or alongside him in a 4-2-2-2. All of this for half the price of Cavani. Having said that, I think signing Cavani would win us the league, Jovetic may struggle in the Premier League and would certainly be a gamble.
In short, we should have signed Hazard when we had the chance.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Maldeika said:
What do you mean 'it does not work like this' ?
Bayern have people like Robben & Ribery who play more like forwards than midfielders (although tbf to them they worked hard in Europe tracking back).
We have more traditional midfielders but more strikers.
Last season they were all average, the season before, they all scored an acceptable number of goals.
Now we are strengthening again & changing one or two, but the answer is simple enough: play better= win stuff.
Maldeika said:
Nice analysis, thanks for it.
So to compare goals of City's attacking midfielders to Bayern we should look at how many goals did Silva, Nasri, Milner and Sinclair scored this season, which is 5 goals for Silva, 5 for Nasri, 0 for Sinclair & 4 goals for Milner.
Which is 14 goals from from the City's attacking midfielders in all competitions.
But the impression i get is we're changing system no? Tevez and Dzeko seem likely to leave.Neville Kneville said:
If they do, we have Aguero, Navas, Silva, Nasri and sort of Yaya currently as our attacking players.
Who there do you have confidence in to score enough goals for us? Aguero i expect to have a better season, but the rest, we can only hope score more, they don't have a history of it.
The original point was whether we need another clinical striker, because Bayern don't. But Bayern have players who score right through their team, we don't have players we can rely on like they do.
Unless we keep Dzeko and Tevez, i believe our next signings have to guarantee plenty goals otherwise we'll struggle to score enough.
Not really.
The data I had is just the data for the league - not for everything.
I would not tell it like this. Ribery is for sure not a player who plays a forward role, he is more the assistant - and Müller mixes, he is the typical winger when he stays on his side and shifts his position when they need goals and plays more of a second forward (He did not play the CAM very often in the league). They are just much more efficient, probably more direct, faster or more unpredictable. Especially when you have Müller in the system you have a constant movement in between the positions.
Ribery took 65 shots for his 10 goals, Müller needed 68 for his 13, Robben needed 46 for 5, Kroos 53 shots for 6 goals.
And interestingly - all of them have at least as much assists as goals - Müller 13, Ribery 15, Robben 7, Kroos 8.
Mandzu, Gomez and Pizza all have about 4.3 shots per goal. Together 138 shots for that 32 goals.
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Compare that to your players...
Silva has 53 shots for 4 goals,
Nasri 30 shots for 2 goals
Milner 30 shots for 4 goals
Dzeko 94 for 14
Agüero 86 for 12
Tevez 105 for 11
Balotelli 34 for 1
Yaya 69 for 7
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I guess a lot has to do with the build up play and they system. If Bayern plays fast and changes directions very often, if there is movement in the positions - they are very dangerous. If they play slow they are not - then a lot is just predictable and the opponent has time to cover the players.
Another thing - Kroos, Gustavo are players that mainly shoot from the second row. If you have players in front of them that draw spaces and occupy the defenders and defensive midfielders totally they have the time and room to shoot. Gustavo took 13 shots for his 4 goals. Schweinsteiger for a central midfielder only needed 42 for 7 (but at him it is mainly headers and shots from inside the penalty box).
The data of Jovetic:
31 matches, 13 goals, 5 assists - 2499 minutes.
That gives him an assist or goal every 139 minutes and put him somewhere near Agüero in that stats.
Jovetic needed 113 shots for his 13 goals.
Rammyblues
Well-Known Member
Well off them stats not sure why everyone thinks Cavani is as good as he is supposed to be. Better getting Benzema using that data.
Rammyblues said:
If you take the same statistics that do not care about assists - only about goals per minutes - than you get that result...
Messi 57.15
Ronaldo 79.88
Gomez 80.36
Chicharito 95.30
Ibrahimovic 99.17
Cavani 102.79
Falcao 103.43
Lewandowski 108.13
Higuain 109.00
Mandzukic 114.87
Di Natale 116.87
Lukaku 117.88
RvP 120.12
Kießling 120.44
Soldado 121.67
Negredo 121.76
Cvitanich 122.53
Pizarro 125.67
Suarez 128.39
Dzeko 130.07
Bale 139.10
Villa 141.10
Osvaldo 144.69
Benzema 147.92
Benteke 148.37
Müller 160.92
Piti 161.17
Agüero 161.83
Walcott 163.14
Ruben Castro 164.00
Michu 166.61
Reus 167.00
Rooney 167.83
Aubemeyang 168.89
Meier 170.13
Lamela 173.13
El Shaarawy 173.69
Blaszczykowski 175.09
Ibisevic 177.33
Diouf 178.50
Podolski 180.27
Cavani scores a goal every 103 minutes - Benzema every 148. Benzema would be a great forward in the Bayern system as he moves a lot and is a very good assistant, too. Pizarro, Bayern's third striker, is probably the best forward for Bayern as he is a technically great - only that he is 35 and is not really up for 2 matches a week anymore. It all depends on the types you need for your system - and how adaptive your players are.
Benzema is more the type you would use as a second striker in a 4-4-2 - somehow like Tevez.
There is so much different types of forwards today - and different types of offensive midfielders - and some kind of mixtures between both. That is why a goal/assist ratio is best to compare them.
BlueDejong
Well-Known Member
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Man City handed first refusal on Fiorentina's Stevan Jovetic leaving Chelsea and Arsenal nervous
The Blues are in prime position to sign the £25m striker after securing a good working relationship with the in-demand player's club
Manchester City think they will be given first refusal on Stevan Jovetic.
And that would mean a nervous wait for Chelsea and Arsenal to see if City want to add £25million-rated striker to their squad.
City struck up a good relationship with Jovetic’s club Fiorentina last summer while negotiating the Matija Nastasic transfer that saw Stefan Savic move in the opposite direction.
Jovetic also shares the same group of agents as Nastasic and City feel that places them in the ideal position if they decide to bid for the 23-year-old.
City’s top target remains Napoli star Edinson Cavani. Chelsea and Real Madrid want him too, but Napoli insist on asking for his full £53m release clause.
Man City handed first refusal on Fiorentina's Stevan Jovetic leaving Chelsea and Arsenal nervous
The Blues are in prime position to sign the £25m striker after securing a good working relationship with the in-demand player's club
Manchester City think they will be given first refusal on Stevan Jovetic.
And that would mean a nervous wait for Chelsea and Arsenal to see if City want to add £25million-rated striker to their squad.
City struck up a good relationship with Jovetic’s club Fiorentina last summer while negotiating the Matija Nastasic transfer that saw Stefan Savic move in the opposite direction.
Jovetic also shares the same group of agents as Nastasic and City feel that places them in the ideal position if they decide to bid for the 23-year-old.
City’s top target remains Napoli star Edinson Cavani. Chelsea and Real Madrid want him too, but Napoli insist on asking for his full £53m release clause.
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