Stoke post match thread

[OB1]

It's really tiresome that so many people don't seem to have an inkling about sports science and you only need an inkling to understand the need for rotation.

All the Navas and Clichy bashing is also tedious. I'm not going to repeat why Navas, despite his shortcomings,is not shite and Clichy made more tackles than anyone on the park and remains our best left back despite being past his sell-by. We need new full backs, we know this but we have to wait until the summer so suck it up.

 

[Father Paul]

We knew what Stoke would do and we needed our most creative and dangerous players on the pitch , by resting Sterling & Merlin and not starting with the more attacking Zabaleta we played into Stoke's hands , job done for Hughes & Co.
If it was the Rags or the Dippers with a ten point lead i would still be hopeful , but the Chavs know how to grind out wins and have recent experience of winning a title , don't agree with some on here regarding our chumps league chances , on our day we can beat the likes of Bayern and Barca so if we beat Monaco the quarter final draw is going to be interesting , the season is over for a lot of clubs , ours is still alive and kicking.

The problem is can we beat them over two days? No way is the obvious answer to that.

 

[Father Paul]

I was so angry after that game. One of the first quotes I heard from Pep was " I am here to learn" is there any reason he hasn't learnt that 80% of the teams coming to our place will sit back and defend for their lives. With that being the case why on fucking earth do you rest your most creative player, our most in form players who has driven us in a great run of form. Now I know people will say we should have enough to beat Stoke, that might be right but when you haven't had enough to beat Boro, Everton, Southampton and needed last minute goals to beat Sunderland and Swansea then I would say you need to be as full strength as possible.

Why make the changes he made? We have been flying, a team full of confidence and he takes Stones out who has found form, Sterling who with him and Sane has been terrifying teams and obviously Silva. We have Boro away in the cup weekend, if he wanted to make changes then rest a couple there as we all know Boro will be weakened as they are trying their best to stay up.

Chelsea will stroll this league and it is because they have a solid team that they don't chop and change week in week out. We make changes for changes sake and it isn't good enough. I don't want to hear the bollocks about them not being in Europe either.

I love Pep, I love the football he is trying to get us playing I just wish he didn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel needlessly.

Oh I fucking hate Stoke

Chelsea are not in Europe and it appears to be helping them win the league!!!

 

[willipp]

Chelsea are not in Europe and it appears to be helping them win the league!!!

Makes a huge difference having no distractions and playing your best 11 every week. They seem to have had very few injuries as well which must be in some part to playing far fewer games than us. Its all part of what makes the PL so hard to win year in year out. The demands of CL football puts a heavy strain on a squad.

 

[Tom_mcfc]

Chelsea are not in Europe and it appears to be helping them win the league!!!

Absolute bollocks. So next season do you think they will drop Hazard needlessly? Will they chop and change their back 4 nearly on a weekly basis? I highly doubt it. I'd even understand it as well if we had Monaco in a few days time but we haven't. We have a cup game before hand where we will probably rest a few AND we was hardly over strained at Sunderland was we, after about an hour we was in first gear so there was no reason for last nights changes. They was made purely for the sake of it and it has cost us another 2 points.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Absolute bollocks. So next season do you think they will drop Hazard needlessly? Will they chop and change their back 4 nearly on a weekly basis? I highly doubt it. I'd even understand it as well if we had Monaco in a few days time but we haven't. We have a cup game before hand where we will probably rest a few AND we was hardly over strained at Sunderland was we, after about an hour we was in first gear so there was no reason for last nights changes. They was made purely for the sake of it and it has cost us another 2 points.

Exactly - really worked the "resting" didn't it? Inevitably having to bring him on just after half time to run around like a blue arsed fly with the added pressure on him to change the game.
He didn't look tired at the end of the Sunderland game, he didn't look tired when he came on - if the computer read out are indicating fatigue - give him a couple of training days off.

 

[Father Paul]

Well if you want to make an issue out of being a "long term Blue" then I go back to 1964/65, but seeing that you think that Navas is really shit,then over the years i have seen so may worse players than him and even more who don`t give a fuck about working for the team.
I agree that he may not be the greatest of players, but to suggest he doesn`t put "his foot in" and help the team out is nothing more than ludicrous.He was nowhere near the worst player on the pitch tonight but to suggest he`s shit because he doesn`t score is just plain daft.
Do you think that last nights game showed that he was worse than Sane,KDB,Toure and the likes ? Was he hell,but every team needs a whipping boy,but not tonight was it Navas.

Some of the criticism is over the top the guy puts in a shift. But an attacking midfield player who has failed to find the back of the net in about 500! games is going
to attract attention.

 

[Tom_mcfc]

Exactly - really worked the "resting" didn't it? Inevitably having to bring him on at half time to run around like a blue arsed fly with the added pressure on him to change the game.
He didn't look tired at the end of the Sunderland game, he didn't look tired when he came on - if the computer read out are indicating fatigue - give him a couple of training days off.

Exactly, the end of the Sunderland game apparently he was getting a bollocking for not going forward more instead of us seeing the game out at 2-0. If we had a really tough game Sunday then the game after Stoke was another battle then I can accept changes in between. Ultimately we was playing 3 really shit teams in a week and instead of carrying the momentum on and learning from mistakes in previous home games we decided to take 2 steps backwards.

 

[Akiva]

It's really tiresome that so many people don't seem to have an inkling about sports science and you only need an inkling to understand the need for rotation.

Exactly, instead we have a bunch of armchair coaches who have the misplaced belief they know how to be a better football manager, or that they know the state (including in training) of the squad more, than Pep Guardiola.

"Silva looked fit to me"

"Rotation was the reason we didn't win the game"

"No reason at all for the changes"

It's a load of absolute twaddle.

 

[Father Paul]

Absolute bollocks. So next season do you think they will drop Hazard needlessly? Will they chop and change their back 4 nearly on a weekly basis? I highly doubt it. I'd even understand it as well if we had Monaco in a few days time but we haven't. We have a cup game before hand where we will probably rest a few AND we was hardly over strained at Sunderland was we, after about an hour we was in first gear so there was no reason for last nights changes. They was made purely for the sake of it and it has cost us another 2 points.

They will at time next season because of the additional workload be forced to rotate. That will on occasion mean that key players will be left out of the squad or on the bench. This will in turn open up the possibility that they will be more likely to drop points. This to me is pure common sense not "absolute Bollocks" as you suggest.

The tendency for Pep to chop and change the back four on a regular basis is a valid but unrelated point. I too have my doubts about the wisdom of such an approach.

 

[Richard]

Rotation is inevitably, and given the fact that the human body takes 72 hours to recover after a game, completely understandable.

We've got less time than that before Middlesbrough, and then not much more than 72 hours before Monaco.

I get the impression that some people think that because players are professional athletes, and are paid millions to perform, that they should be able to defy biology.

Whilst I have no doubt the we have the best sport scientists/facilities to aid recovery, sometimes rest is needed, particularly in a case of someone like Sterling who's game revolves around sprints.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Exactly, instead we have a bunch of armchair coaches who have the misplaced belief they know how to be a better football manager, or that they know the state (including in training) of the squad more, than Pep Guardiola.

"Silva looked fit to me"

"Rotation was the reason we didn't win the game"

"No reason at all for the changes"

It's a load of absolute twaddle.

So we won then?
Pep himself has admitted he's learning - so maybe sometimes he does get it wrong - just like we do. It's called debate and this sort of school yard "armchair coaches" and "better than the manager" nonsense has no place in it.

 

[Father Paul]

I totally agree. There are far too many on here who spout a load of nonsense. It's obvious some of these so called fans are clueless and probably were nowhere to be seen pre 2008.

Can't wait for Saturday as it should be a great day out at Boro with thousands of well informed Blues cheering on the boys to pick up all 3 points.

I think we still have to play them away but there are no points up for grabs on Sat.

 

[Tom_mcfc]

They will at time next season because of the additional workload be forced to rotate. That will on occasion mean that key players will be left out of the squad or on the bench. This will in turn open up the possibility that they will be more likely to drop points. This to me is pure common sense not "absolute Bollocks" as you suggest.

The tendency for Pep to chop and change the back four on a regular basis is a valid but unrelated point. I too have my doubts about the wisdom of such an approach.

Not saying your logic is bollocks mate, I just hate it as a defence. Up until recently every one who has won the league would of been involved in European football. We have played is it 9 games more? 2 of them being the qualifiers where we didn't break a sweat and the final Celtic game where we made changes and was a dead rubber. I just think it is crazy how professional footballers, paid absolute millions have to be dropped but a team that will end up playing maybe 10 games less are fine. I just had a look at minutes played and to be fair it counted the Euros but Sterling has played 50 minutes more than Hazard since then. One is bang in form and carrying his team to the title, the other got dropped last night needlessly where his style would of opened up a stubborn Stoke more.

He hyped up John Stones before the game, so he is playing better, getting confidence, manager behind him with momentum and erm dropped. Crazy.

 

[BlueCityfan]

We were never going to win the title. But this puts more pressure on us to take points against Liverpool (h), Arsenal (a), Chelsea (a)....not to mention the Saints away and the rags at home. We are right there in the middle of the fight for top 4.

Let's hope the squad has the energy to fight on 3 fronts. And that we don't end up sacrificing the league.

 

[Tom_mcfc]

Exactly, instead we have a bunch of armchair coaches who have the misplaced belief they know how to be a better football manager, or that they know the state (including in training) of the squad more, than Pep Guardiola.

"Silva looked fit to me"

"Rotation was the reason we didn't win the game"

"No reason at all for the changes"

It's a load of absolute twaddle.

Back up why it was a good idea to make changes then mate. I am all ears. if Silva is fit enough to come on and have to run his bollocks off to save the game then he is fit enough to start. If rotating a winning, confident team with momentum is a good idea please tell me why that is.

I'm just not for changing for changing sake and even more so when we are in such good form, people defending him are underestimating the confidence and momentum these runs bring - just look at Chelsea.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Some over-the-top negative comments on here, as I had anticipated. Of course it's disappointing to be drawing at home against Stoke, of course it's unacceptable. But absolutely everybody except Chelsea has been getting these kinds of results. That's why Chelsea will be champions. This year, at least.
If Kelechi puts that ball in the net – and frankly it was easier to score than to miss – everything would look a bit different this morning. All last night confirmed, as far as I was concerned, was how very brilliantly Raheem and Merlin have been playing during the recent run, and how integral they have been to that run. Also, more worryingly, that KDB is probably in his poorest period since putting on a City shirt. Sergio was busy, and chipped away at the paint on the parked bus, without anything quite coming off for him. Same for Sané. On to Middlesbrough.

I think it's more the accumulation of home dropped points this season that gets to people more. Our home form on the whole has been terrible this season. Stoke actually did well but we could have done better especially first half when we were dross.

 

[salfordbluetrue]

Difficult to break down a 10 man defense tho a bit of urgency going forward might have helped

well actually it is not you just play with three up front, a few years back fergis scoffed at city`s seven strikers, the year after we ravaged the league.
last night it was like ten man defense against ten man midfield absolute ugly football only pep to blame

 

[Father Paul]

Haven't gone through the post-match thread yet but I would be interested to know how long the ball was active for throughout the match. I'd be surprised if it's anything north of 60 minutes.

I know it's down to us to break stubborn teams down and we didn't do that last night but the amount of time taken for "injuries", throw-ins and dead ball situations was ridiculous. I think this was a deliberate Stoke tactic. If you think about it, we have ground teams down by moving them around over the 90 mins and eventually most teams have tired, creating the space for us to exploit. By stopping and starting like Stoke did last night, they never tired as much as others have this season.

Awful match to watch and a frustrating performance by us. Ultimately, I don't understand why you would break up Sterling Aguero and Sane at the moment but i suppose that's why I'm sat here typing and Pep is getting paid the big bucks.

Good point about the time wasting and another innovation required in the future is some sort of clock control along the lines of rugby. The manner in which the additional time is calculated is far to arbitrary. Teams deliberately slowing down the game would have less of an incentive and going further a directive could be introduced to make it easier to book players for time wasting.

 

[Akiva]

So we won then?
Pep himself has admitted he's learning - so maybe sometimes he does get it wrong - just like we do.

Pep gave the reason we didn't win in his post-match interview: We didn't take our chances.

If the reason was that we didn't win because he didn't start David Silva, well, it seems he isn't learning that lesson at all.

It's called debate and this sort of school yard "armchair coaches" and "better than the manager" nonsense has no place in it.

Sure it does, it's a perfectly legitimate point that you don't have access to the players like Pep does and it's foolish to think he could have played Silva without any difficulties/risks/regression but stubbornly didn't.

In fact, Pep made the same point a week ago to stave off criticism of Klopp's team selection in the FA Cup which contained 8 non-regular starters. Our side last night contained only 1.

Back up why it was a good idea to make changes then mate.

Dunno mate, might have something to do with those 4 games we are playing in 10 days.

if Silva is fit enough to come on and have to run his bollocks off to save the game then he is fit enough to start.

Is he fit enough to play 90 minutes though? That hasn't been established.

Perhaps he was fatigued.

We rotated at Sunderland by resting KDB, arguably our most important player last season and much of this, yet you weren't moaning about it because we didn't miss our chances.

If rotating a winning, confident team with momentum is a good idea please tell me why that is.

Dunno if you've noticed, but Pep hasn't played the same team two games in a row since he took the job. This "winning, confident team" idea is a myth. It's a winning, confident squad.

I'm just not for changing for changing sake and even more so when we are in such good form, people defending him are underestimating the confidence and momentum these runs bring - just look at Chelsea.

I think Pep knows what he's doing, but whatever, the rotation wasn't the reason we didn't score. That's all.