"Stop the Boats"

[ganganvince]

So tell me how an undocumented migrant gets Unemployment Benefit.
It will be very 8nteresting to find out.

Asylum support

How to apply for asylum support if you're waiting to find out if you'll be given asylum in the UK

www.gov.uk

Not unemployment benefit as they aren't allowed to work.

 

[blueparrot]

Politicians don’t tell you it’s the only way. They specifically tell you it isn’t the way. No politician in Europe is saying that the only way is to bring in lots of immigrants. No politician in Europe is running for office on a platform of ‘Lets increase immigration! Yay!’

‘What do we want?”
“Immigrants!”
“How many do we want?”
“Lots of them!”
“When do we want them?”
“Now!”

Vote Bob. The Reality Party.

Not entirely, the SNP will tell you Scotland needs immigration.

What is the SNP’s policy on immigration? — Scottish National Party

Scotland needs an immigration policy suited to our specific circumstances and needs. Scotland needs people to want to work here, in our businesses, our universities and in our public services.

www.snp.org

Scotland needs an immigration policy suited to our specific circumstances and needs. Scotland needs people to want to work here, in our businesses, our universities and in our public services. The current UK one-size-fits-all approach to immigration is failing Scotland.

UK immigration policies do not take into account Scotland’s unique circumstances and they are harmful to our communities and future prosperity. Tory immigration proposals would be disastrous for Scotland. They will send our working-age population into decline, threaten tax revenues and cause serious staffing shortages in our NHS, care services and key sectors such as tourism, agriculture and construction.

 

[BobKowalski]

Not entirely, the SNP will tell you Scotland needs immigration.

What is the SNP’s policy on immigration? — Scottish National Party

Scotland needs an immigration policy suited to our specific circumstances and needs. Scotland needs people to want to work here, in our businesses, our universities and in our public services.

www.snp.org

Scotland needs an immigration policy suited to our specific circumstances and needs. Scotland needs people to want to work here, in our businesses, our universities and in our public services. The current UK one-size-fits-all approach to immigration is failing Scotland.

UK immigration policies do not take into account Scotland’s unique circumstances and they are harmful to our communities and future prosperity. Tory immigration proposals would be disastrous for Scotland. They will send our working-age population into decline, threaten tax revenues and cause serious staffing shortages in our NHS, care services and key sectors such as tourism, agriculture and construction.

Good point. Refreshing to see a politician stating the obvious.

 

[Blue and true]

Good point. Refreshing to see a politician stating the obvious.

It shouldn't need to be stated but it's refreshing all the same. I remember the SNP's representative making the salient points in favour of immigration on the TV debate a few weeks back, and it generated the biggest reception of the night. Too many see immigration as a blight, rather than the lifeblood it is that keeps our economy and society functioning.

 

[BrianW]

What is needed is a sensible, adult debate on immigration with a High Court judge in the chair to rule any argument based on emotion out of order.

It could come down to: This is the price of zero net immigration. Are you willing to pay it?

What we have at the moment is rather like the 'debate' over Brexit. Lots of emotion-based bullshit and very little factual input, or consideration of how, in practical terms*, the desired outcome could be delivered.

The problem at the moment is people are being allowed to imagine/pretend that you can have no immigration and at the same time no negative consequences.

We also need to more clearly distinguish between:

a) Economic migrants with visas issued by the government.
b) Students on temporary visas.
c) Asylum seekers/refugees.

As it clouds the issue to pretend they are all as one.

I believe that successive governments have decided that immigration is necessary for economic reasons. They know it is broadly unpopular, but they know that crashing the economy and collapsing public services - notably the NHS - would be more so.

Nevertheless, we have never had that sensible, reasoned debate, and in the interests of national unity, I believe we ought to do so. But note - sensible and reasoned with a full understanding of consequences.




*Including legal aspects.

 

[Pedestrian]

What is needed is a sensible, adult debate on immigration with a High Court judge in the chair to rule any argument based on emotion out of order.

It could come down to: This is the price of zero net immigration. Are you willing to pay it?

What we have at the moment is rather like the 'debate' over Brexit. Lots of emotion-based bullshit and very little factual input, or consideration of how, in practical terms*, the desired outcome could be delivered.

The problem at the moment is people are being allowed to imagine/pretend that you can have no immigration and at the same time no negative consequences.

We also need to more clearly distinguish between:

a) Economic migrants with visas issued by the government.
b) Students on temporary visas.
c) Asylum seekers/refugees.

As it clouds the issue to pretend they are all as one.

I believe that successive governments have decided that immigration is necessary for economic reasons. They know it is broadly unpopular, but they know that crashing the economy and collapsing public services - notably the NHS - would be more so.

Nevertheless, we have never had that sensible, reasoned debate, and in the interests of national unity, I believe we ought to do so. But note - sensible and reasoned with a full understanding of consequences.




*Including legal aspects.

The shit show that is the House of Commons rules out any chance of a grown up debate. Sounds utterly bizarre but you’d have to exempt most mp’s because they’re incapable of reasoned debate.

 

[BrianW]

The shit show that is the House of Commons rules out any chance of a grown up debate. Sounds utterly bizarre but you’d have to exempt most mp’s because they’re incapable of reasoned debate.

Well, quite and that's the whole problem. We have moved so far away from government based on reason and facts that it now seems almost like Alice in Wonderland to suggest it.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

So tell me how an undocumented migrant gets Unemployment Benefit.
It will be very 8nteresting to find out.

Tell me how a documented migrant gets it. You have to be working in the UK for at least a couple of years before you're entitled to it, if I remember rightly.

 

[inbetween]

What is needed is a sensible, adult debate on immigration with a High Court judge in the chair to rule any argument based on emotion out of order.

It could come down to: This is the price of zero net immigration. Are you willing to pay it?

What we have at the moment is rather like the 'debate' over Brexit. Lots of emotion-based bullshit and very little factual input, or consideration of how, in practical terms*, the desired outcome could be delivered.

The problem at the moment is people are being allowed to imagine/pretend that you can have no immigration and at the same time no negative consequences.

We also need to more clearly distinguish between:

a) Economic migrants with visas issued by the government.
b) Students on temporary visas.
c) Asylum seekers/refugees.

As it clouds the issue to pretend they are all as one.

I believe that successive governments have decided that immigration is necessary for economic reasons. They know it is broadly unpopular, but they know that crashing the economy and collapsing public services - notably the NHS - would be more so.

Nevertheless, we have never had that sensible, reasoned debate, and in the interests of national unity, I believe we ought to do so. But note - sensible and reasoned with a full understanding of consequences.




*Including legal aspects.

A sensible debate unfortunately requires the acceptance of reason and that is going to be lost here. The reason why is much of the sentiment on immigration is ideological and not fact based.

It's like having a train with two carriages and the passengers numbers will go up by 100%, surely the train now needs two more carriages? So you either stop the passenger numbers going up or you buy two new carriages (which could be paid for by the new passengers).

Neither is really the right answer unless you consider the greater advantages and disadvantages of either. However, ideologies and prejudices come into play where people actually don't care about the advantages or disadvantages. If somebody is prejudiced against brown people then no logical reasoning is going to matter.

 

[BobKowalski]

What is needed is a sensible, adult debate on immigration with a High Court judge in the chair to rule any argument based on emotion out of order.

It could come down to: This is the price of zero net immigration. Are you willing to pay it?

What we have at the moment is rather like the 'debate' over Brexit. Lots of emotion-based bullshit and very little factual input, or consideration of how, in practical terms*, the desired outcome could be delivered.

The problem at the moment is people are being allowed to imagine/pretend that you can have no immigration and at the same time no negative consequences.

We also need to more clearly distinguish between:

a) Economic migrants with visas issued by the government.
b) Students on temporary visas.
c) Asylum seekers/refugees.

As it clouds the issue to pretend they are all as one.

I believe that successive governments have decided that immigration is necessary for economic reasons. They know it is broadly unpopular, but they know that crashing the economy and collapsing public services - notably the NHS - would be more so.

Nevertheless, we have never had that sensible, reasoned debate, and in the interests of national unity, I believe we ought to do so. But note - sensible and reasoned with a full understanding of consequences.




*Including legal aspects.

Agreed. Sounds eminently sensible.