"Stop the Boats"

[oldius]

The only way to stop immigration being a talking point is to have the politicians state their preferred policy the see it through. Immigration feeds into a lot of the issues you want discussion on.

There will be positives and negatives to most policies we just don't have the politicians nor a lot of the public willing to be adult enough about it.

It is my opinion that immigration does not feed those issues - in fact, it is a key opportunity for growth - but failing to invest in services, cutting funding, and pursuing austerity, at the same time as having a population growth, is ludicrous. Focussing on growth and investment is key, IMO. Politicians talking about what they are going to do to deal with those issues stops the immigration narrative - health, education, poverty, homelessness, inequality and economic growth should be the main conversations. Separately, global discussion on migration has to take place and will include issues such as climate change, weapons supply, diplomatic services and more.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

So block me, don't reply to me if I'm so repugnant to you.

You can't though can you?

That's your problem my virtue signalling pygmy with his own very nasty and bigoted streak running right through your middle.

I already gave you that option. You didn't accept. I'm not giving you that benefit unless it's returned because you have habit of posting lies. I'm just going to file you in the pity list.

 

[hilts]

It is my opinion that immigration does not feed those issues - in fact, it is a key opportunity for growth - but failing to invest in services, cutting funding, and pursuing austerity, at the same time as having a population growth, is ludicrous. Focussing on growth and investment is key, IMO.

Whether you believe in no immigration little lots or open their are consequences and pretty big ones. An immigration policy on its own is useless without factoring in and being honest about the consequences.

If you look at any metric houses, hospitals, gp's education, enviroment,transport etc etc they are all falling behind. I personally cannot be in favour of population growth being concerned about the environment and knowing the Pyramid scheme of eternal growth is delusional long term. I realise this stance isn't what the majority think.

If people are in favour though they need to state how they are going to make it work. But let's face reality here we stumble day to day, year to year putting out fires or not(Tory dicks) until eventually somebody else gets a go and they do the same thing.

We work in election cycles, politicians promise shit, spend the next 5 years deflecting.on why they ain't doing what they promised then promise it again.

 

[oldius]

Whether you believe in no immigration little lots or open their are consequences and pretty big ones. An immigration policy on its own is useless without factoring in and being honest about the consequences.

If you look at any metric houses, hospitals, gp's education, enviroment,transport etc etc they are all falling behind. I personally cannot be in favour of population growth being concerned about the environment and knowing the Pyramid scheme of eternal growth is delusional long term. I realise this stance isn't what the majority think.

If people are in favour though they need to state how they are going to make it work. But let's face reality here we stumble day to day, year to year putting out fires or not(Tory dicks) until eventually somebody else gets a go and they do the same thing.

We work in election cycles, politicians promise shit, spend the next 5 years deflecting.on why they ain't doing what they promised then promise it again.

There are absolute consequences for any amount of immigration. I am personally in favour of globally open borders, broadly speaking, but understand that the realities of such are that some parts of the world are more attractive than others for a variety of complex reasons. A world population of 9 billion, with much of it under fear of climate change, war and poverty, is a complex, global conversation.

 

[hilts]

There are absolute consequences for any amount of immigration. I am personally in favour of globally open borders, broadly speaking, but understand that the realities of such are that some parts of the world are more attractive than others for a variety of complex reasons. A world population of 9 billion, with much of it under fear of climate change, war and poverty, is a complex, global conversation.

Yeah globally open borders would not be good, you really don't want to be in certain parts of the world in the future though. Can't say I'm optimistic in the slightest for my grandkids or anyones grandkids. Really worries me tbh.

Oh for a hot tub time machine:-)

 

[oldius]

Yeah globally open borders would not be good, you really don't want to be in certain parts of the world in the future though. Can't say I'm optimistic in the slightest for my grandkids or anyones grandkids. Really worries me tbh.

Oh for a hot tub time machine:-)

I think globally open borders will be an inevitable reality unless we get a grip of climate change.

 

[Kompany Car]

I think globally open borders will be an inevitable reality unless we get a grip of climate change.

Its self fulfilling, finite resources cannot support infinite growth. There's only a certain percentage of arable land in the world. If everyone decided to be veggie then yes you could support a larger global population, but you still would hit a hard limit. As awful as it sounds and yes it is truly terrible, people living longer in the developed world and the reduction in infant mortality in countries with very high birth rates is just compounding the problem.

As populations grow so does their effect on the climate. The ultimate out turn, just like with populations of any animal will be famine and unlike most animals, the human obsession of war.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/08/are-there-too-many-people-all-bets-are-off

Anyway sorry for going down that rabbit hole, as you were !

 

[oldius]

Its self fulfilling, finite resources cannot support infinite growth. There's only a certain percentage of arable land in the world. If everyone decided to be veggie then yes you could support a larger global population, but you still would hit a hard limit. As awful as it sounds and yes it is truly terrible, people living longer in the developed world and the reduction in infant mortality in countries with very high birth rates is just compounding the problem.

As populations grow so does their effect on the climate. The ultimate out turn, just like with populations of any animal will be famine and unlike most animals, the human obsession of war.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/08/are-there-too-many-people-all-bets-are-off

Anyway sorry for going down that rabbit hole, as you were !

Excellent post

 

[hilts]

I think globally open borders will be an inevitable reality unless we get a grip of climate change.

More like fighting at them rather than opening them, future Trump will have a field day.

 

[oldius]

More like fighting at them rather than opening them, future Trump will have a field day.

They have a field day already. We spend so much time talking about it because we allow 'one-issue politicians' to distort the narrative. They often will not field questions about other issues because they have built a career out of dinghy-pointing. And they built careers from it since the dawn of time. It's nice to be able to have an adult conversation about it because the world, as @Kompany Car outlined so well, cannot cope with a population growing way beyond its abilities to feed itself, in a capitalist system that grows and provides only for those with the means to pay.