Stuart Brennan. MEN.

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I'm with the Doctor on this.

Understanding how something works has no bearing on one's right or capacity to make value judgements on it.

I don't need to understand the theory of flight to appreciate that if a plane falls out of the sky then it's not doing it's job properly. I don't need to understand the brewing process to have a worthwhile opinion on whether a pint of beer is not to my tastes.

It's intellectual snobbery for people to hide behind the cloak of their profession to pontificate that anyone who disagrees with what they produce simply doesn't understand the processes involved, especially if that other person is a paying customer.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm with the Doctor on this.

Understanding how something works has no bearing on one's right or capacity to make value judgements on it.

I don't need to understand the theory of flight to appreciate that if a plane falls out of the sky then it's not doing it's job properly. I don't need to understand the brewing process to have a worthwhile opinion on whether a pint of beer is not to my tastes.

It's intellectual snobbery for people to hide behind the cloak of their profession to pontificate that anyone who disagrees with what they produce simply doesn't understand the processes involved, especially if that other person is a paying customer.

"We're feeding you this and if you don't like it, it's because you don't know enough about it".

It's a bullshit argument really.

 

[squirtyflower]

I'm with the Doctor on this.

Understanding how something works has no bearing on one's right or capacity to make value judgements on it.

I don't need to understand the theory of flight to appreciate that if a plane falls out of the sky then it's not doing it's job properly. I don't need to understand the brewing process to have a worthwhile opinion on whether a pint of beer is not to my tastes.

It's intellectual snobbery for people to hide behind the cloak of their profession to pontificate that anyone who disagrees with what they produce simply doesn't understand the processes involved, especially if that other person is a paying customer.

"We're feeding you this and if you don't like it, it's because you don't know enough about it".

It's a bullshit argument really.

conversely though during his sojourn to the board he said they were only feeding the punters what they had wanted and not what he felt they should be feeding them?
quite a circular argument

 

[oakiecokie]

This “you know nothing about journalism and how news is reported” stuff is just a nonsense argument and has absolutely no relevance here. I am the reader. It is not my job to understand how the industry works. I do not even wish to understand. As the reader however aren’t I entitled to expect to receive factually correct news presented to me without mistakes? Any article that carries spelling mistakes, particularly of people’s names, (something so easy to check), is just poor and from a newspaper attempting to be taken seriously is just unacceptable. Isn’t it? I don't need to know how journalism works to understand that.

This isn’t however anything to do with a few dodgy typos, taken in isolation, poor as that it. It is the fact that if the MEN can’t get even the basics right, what faith do we have in them getting all the other things right?

They run ridiculous “ten goal bonanza” type headlines and then a United supporting journalist whose had one too many shandies pops up to try and defend his publication's position and who ends up articulating himself so poorly that one poster quite eloquently summarises the reporter's stance with “so it's our fault your paper is shit?”

I don’t speak for anyone other than myself. I certainly don’t speak for anyone on here. Those happy to accept poor, lazy, error-ridden, biased journalism, you go for it, that's your choice.

Whether I understand how journalism works or not is however wholly irrelevant.

I agree with the thrust of what you're saying there. It annoys the fuck out of me when people go all esoteric on a particular subject claiming that others just don't "get it".

As an aside, are you a real doctor or are you an imposter like Doctors Who, Dre, Fox and Evil?

I would say he is really a Dr.White as he`s certainly talikng like one.

 

[BlueMooney]

I'm with the Doctor on this.

Understanding how something works has no bearing on one's right or capacity to make value judgements on it.

I don't need to understand the theory of flight to appreciate that if a plane falls out of the sky then it's not doing it's job properly. I don't need to understand the brewing process to have a worthwhile opinion on whether a pint of beer is not to my tastes.

It's intellectual snobbery for people to hide behind the cloak of their profession to pontificate that anyone who disagrees with what they produce simply doesn't understand the processes involved, especially if that other person is a paying customer.

Not quite... You can not understand how a plane flies and appreciate a crash meant something went wrong, but you can't blame the pilot for engine failure because they said their name at the start of the flight.

Criticising a journalist for a picture caption is like criticising a pilot for the engines failing.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I'm with the Doctor on this.

Understanding how something works has no bearing on one's right or capacity to make value judgements on it.

I don't need to understand the theory of flight to appreciate that if a plane falls out of the sky then it's not doing it's job properly. I don't need to understand the brewing process to have a worthwhile opinion on whether a pint of beer is not to my tastes.

It's intellectual snobbery for people to hide behind the cloak of their profession to pontificate that anyone who disagrees with what they produce simply doesn't understand the processes involved, especially if that other person is a paying customer.

Not quite... You can not understand how a plane flies and appreciate a crash meant something went wrong, but you can't blame the pilot for engine failure because they said their name at the start of the flight.

Criticising a journalist for a picture caption is like criticising a pilot for the engines failing.

His criticism of the paper extended far beyond the caption and it was upon that, and the subsequent deflection tactics deployed, that my post was based.

His criticism of the paper is not one I entirely share btw.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm with the Doctor on this.

Understanding how something works has no bearing on one's right or capacity to make value judgements on it.

I don't need to understand the theory of flight to appreciate that if a plane falls out of the sky then it's not doing it's job properly. I don't need to understand the brewing process to have a worthwhile opinion on whether a pint of beer is not to my tastes.

It's intellectual snobbery for people to hide behind the cloak of their profession to pontificate that anyone who disagrees with what they produce simply doesn't understand the processes involved, especially if that other person is a paying customer.

"We're feeding you this and if you don't like it, it's because you don't know enough about it".

It's a bullshit argument really.

conversely though during his sojourn to the board he said they were only feeding the punters what they had wanted and not what he felt they should be feeding them?
quite a circular argument

Well the M.E.N obviously are not, judging by the comments on this board and many blues I have spoken to in real life. They are cutting off a huge section of their readership, hence why I think Mr Brennan is on here trying to argue the case.

I should have said "We're going to try and feed you this".

 

[Dr Mick]

I'm with the Doctor on this.

Understanding how something works has no bearing on one's right or capacity to make value judgements on it.

I don't need to understand the theory of flight to appreciate that if a plane falls out of the sky then it's not doing it's job properly. I don't need to understand the brewing process to have a worthwhile opinion on whether a pint of beer is not to my tastes.

It's intellectual snobbery for people to hide behind the cloak of their profession to pontificate that anyone who disagrees with what they produce simply doesn't understand the processes involved, especially if that other person is a paying customer.

Not quite... You can not understand how a plane flies and appreciate a crash meant something went wrong, but you can't blame the pilot for engine failure because they said their name at the start of the flight.

Criticising a journalist for a picture caption is like criticising a pilot for the engines failing.

I'm criticising Stuart not for the caption errors but for his 'It's got nothing to me we me, I've grassed the culprit up Peter Spencer' attitude. Arrogant in the extreme (particularly as he's come out and made this public knowledge) and demonstrates a clear lack of collectively responsibility for his company/colleagues and zero professional pride for his industry. The mere fact that the article carries his name is reason enough for him to accept some responsibility for it, rather than just passing the buck.

I'm a criticising the MEN for their substandard reporting and general lack of professionalism.

I stand 100% by my point that "I need to know absolutely nothing about how journalism works" to conclude that any newspaper that churns out "ten goal bonanza" type headlines and publishes articles with mistakes in them (whether those mistakes are in the headline, the body text or the captions) is indeed a poor publication.

There is absolutely nothing that anyone on here or anywhere else for that matter can say to make me change my opinion.

 

[Marvin]

At least he bothers about what we think which counts for an awful lot in my book

The MEN is almost unique in the media for not having a negative angle on MCFC. There's the odd article that goes against the grain, and in certain periods of time they may have taken against an owner or manager, but it's about the only newspaper that is written with City fans in mind.

The problem the MEN has is making itself relevant for City fans. The news in there is 48 hours old by the time I pick it up. I look at the headlines, and nearly all the time I just discard it, because I already know about it.

How do they combat that? Not sure I care. Why would I? But if I was an owner of the paper, that's what I would be looking at. And the answer surely lies in making fans part of the paper through it's online edition.

 

[The Pink Panther]

You clearly lack the understanding of how influential the media can be, frightening really from a journalist.

Many people probably did, people with little interest in football. Do you know how many people there are out there claiming to be Utd "fans" who couldn't name the man who Alex Ferguson followed? These are the types of morons who bow to lazy journalism, social networking sites are filled with these imbeciles posting articles with similar drivel. Drivel I know and any true football fan would know was made up bollocks but they peddle it.

There is a deep sense of negativity in this country towards City and a lot of it is due to how the media portray us. They highlight our spending whether we win or lose but forget to mention Utd's first team has been slightly cheaper for the last few years, they label our owners as "the Arabs" highlighting their ethnicity in a negative light, this has been going on for a while Stuart.

I have have spoken to people who have very little understanding of football and they have said "I prefer Utd to City because they do it the right way", they haven't a fucking clue and it's the gutter press feeding this bullshit.

"Whoever controls the media, controls the mind" couldn't be more true, well true for the majority of idiots in society who cannot think for themselves. I am not blaming you personally, I think you are positive towards City mostly but have a good look at some of your colleagues because they certainly are different.

And I suggest you never ever let someone with no interest in football write an article about the clubs your main readers support because that was fucking disastrous.

I thought this was the post of the thread