sir baconface
Well-Known Member
Hey magicpole, I see your team fluked the title ;)
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Sturgeon wants another referendum
- Thread starter blue cigar
- Start date
Why do you think UKIP are more viable post brexit than SNP would be post indy?
I hope you're wrong, and i think you are. It would disappoint me hugely if we gained independence then slid back into essentially a 2 party slagging match, tory vs labour. Part of my hope for the future of Scotland would be 4 or 5 strong political parties offering different options to voters. Holyrood is designed to prevent majority governments after all.
I think you're wrong because the SNP are gaining popularity in the local elections also, they already have the popular vote and all signs point to a better performance in the upcoming local elections. That's local government, not national, little to do with independence.
I think UKIP are potentially more viable post Brexit because they can still target the "white van man / daily mail" voters. I'm not sure that there is enough, apart from indepependence, that holds the SNP together.
Magicpole
Well-Known Member
Just in. Spain veto not going to happen. As I said.
"SPANISH FOREIGN MINISTER CONFIRMS INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND’S EU STATUS".
"The Spanish Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis has said that Spain would not attempt to stand in the way of an independent Scotland’s membership of the EU, confirming what other leading Spanish politicians have said previously".
"The significant intervention is the latest comment from a senior European figure confirming that Scotland’s position in the EU as an independent member would be relatively straightforward.
This week Lord Kerr, who wrote Article 50, said that an independent Scotland would see “a very swift accession negotiation” and that Scotland would “be in very fast”.
Commenting, SNP MP Stephen Gethins said:
“This is a significant intervention by Spain’s foreign minister which confirms what other Spanish politicians have said previously.
“We can be now absolutely clear – there is no intention of a ‘Spanish veto’ over Scotland’s EU membership.
“This is just the latest indication from a senior European diplomat that an independent Scotland would be welcomed into the EU, after Lord Kerr this week said that we'd be in 'very fast'.
“EU countries want to be constructive with Scotland and will respect the democratic will of the Scottish people if we choose to be independent.”"
Notes:
"Spain drops plan to impose veto if Scotland tries to join EU
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...n-to-impose-veto-if-scotland-tries-to-join-eu
ESTEBAN GONZALEZ PONS MEP, LEADER OF PP’s DELEGATION IN EPP GROUP
(PP, SPAIN’S GOVERNING PARTY)
· Member of European Parliament's Committee on Budgets
· Member of European Parliament's Committee on Constitutional Affairs
Spain would not block a bid by Scotland to rejoin the EU, according to a senior MEP from the country’s ruling party.
Esteban Gonzalez Pons from Mariano Rajoy’s Popular Party said the Catalonian situation was “very different” to that in Scotland, and indicated concerns over the possible breakaway of the province from Spain would not be an obstacle if a newly independent Scotland wanted to join the EU.
But in an interview for the BBC Pons said: “If Scotland wants to come back [into the EU] they have to begin the procedure as would any other country.” Asked if Spain would veto a Scottish application, Pons said: “No. If they are thinking about Scotland the Catalonian situation is very different to the Scottish situation.”
· National, 11 March 2017
FERNANDO MAURA MEP (UNION, PROGRESS & DEMOCRACY), VICE-PRESIDENT OF ALDE GROUP
… when asked if Spain would seek to block an independent Scotland from joining the EU, responded: “No, not at all.” …
… “If Scotland is independent from the United Kingdom, Scotland can negotiate with the European Union to become part of it. If that’s the case, Spain has not anything to do but negotiate in terms of our interests.”
Maura added: “If the UK leaves the EU, Scotland in one moment can be part of the EU if Scotland has independence from the UK. It will be a sovereign state.”
· Buzzfeed News, 1 February 2017
SPOKESPERSON FOR JOSE CANO, VICE CHAIR OF THE SPANISH PARLIAMENT’S EU COMMITTEE
A spokesperson for the vice chair of the Spanish parliament’s EU committee, Jose Cano, told BuzzFeed News that, while the Scottish government is unable to negotiate with any EU member state while it’s part of the UK, he was sceptical of claims that Spain would block an independent Scotland’s future entry.
“I have never read such comments from any Spanish political leader,” said the spokesperson. “If Scotland gets its independence, in a legal referendum in the United Kingdom, if that is legitimate then Scotland will claim independence and be accepted by the international community.
“If that happens, then the discussion will be whether Scotland should or shouldn’t join the EU. In that case, Spain would have nothing to complain about at all.”
· Buzzfeed News, 1 February 2017
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/...o-say-scotland?utm_term=.csgNwy4Q0#.xom3mGQlN
“The good news is that it would be a very swift accession negotiation. The sort of rubbish people talk about – back of the queue, behind the Turks – that’s all balls because there is no queue.
"People who are declared eligible to join can join as soon as they’re ready to accept the whole of the acquis. Since the Scots would, presumably ... still be applying something very close to the existing acquis, they'd be in very fast.""
"SPANISH FOREIGN MINISTER CONFIRMS INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND’S EU STATUS".
"The Spanish Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis has said that Spain would not attempt to stand in the way of an independent Scotland’s membership of the EU, confirming what other leading Spanish politicians have said previously".
"The significant intervention is the latest comment from a senior European figure confirming that Scotland’s position in the EU as an independent member would be relatively straightforward.
This week Lord Kerr, who wrote Article 50, said that an independent Scotland would see “a very swift accession negotiation” and that Scotland would “be in very fast”.
Commenting, SNP MP Stephen Gethins said:
“This is a significant intervention by Spain’s foreign minister which confirms what other Spanish politicians have said previously.
“We can be now absolutely clear – there is no intention of a ‘Spanish veto’ over Scotland’s EU membership.
“This is just the latest indication from a senior European diplomat that an independent Scotland would be welcomed into the EU, after Lord Kerr this week said that we'd be in 'very fast'.
“EU countries want to be constructive with Scotland and will respect the democratic will of the Scottish people if we choose to be independent.”"
Notes:
"Spain drops plan to impose veto if Scotland tries to join EU
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...n-to-impose-veto-if-scotland-tries-to-join-eu
ESTEBAN GONZALEZ PONS MEP, LEADER OF PP’s DELEGATION IN EPP GROUP
(PP, SPAIN’S GOVERNING PARTY)
· Member of European Parliament's Committee on Budgets
· Member of European Parliament's Committee on Constitutional Affairs
Spain would not block a bid by Scotland to rejoin the EU, according to a senior MEP from the country’s ruling party.
Esteban Gonzalez Pons from Mariano Rajoy’s Popular Party said the Catalonian situation was “very different” to that in Scotland, and indicated concerns over the possible breakaway of the province from Spain would not be an obstacle if a newly independent Scotland wanted to join the EU.
But in an interview for the BBC Pons said: “If Scotland wants to come back [into the EU] they have to begin the procedure as would any other country.” Asked if Spain would veto a Scottish application, Pons said: “No. If they are thinking about Scotland the Catalonian situation is very different to the Scottish situation.”
· National, 11 March 2017
FERNANDO MAURA MEP (UNION, PROGRESS & DEMOCRACY), VICE-PRESIDENT OF ALDE GROUP
… when asked if Spain would seek to block an independent Scotland from joining the EU, responded: “No, not at all.” …
… “If Scotland is independent from the United Kingdom, Scotland can negotiate with the European Union to become part of it. If that’s the case, Spain has not anything to do but negotiate in terms of our interests.”
Maura added: “If the UK leaves the EU, Scotland in one moment can be part of the EU if Scotland has independence from the UK. It will be a sovereign state.”
· Buzzfeed News, 1 February 2017
SPOKESPERSON FOR JOSE CANO, VICE CHAIR OF THE SPANISH PARLIAMENT’S EU COMMITTEE
A spokesperson for the vice chair of the Spanish parliament’s EU committee, Jose Cano, told BuzzFeed News that, while the Scottish government is unable to negotiate with any EU member state while it’s part of the UK, he was sceptical of claims that Spain would block an independent Scotland’s future entry.
“I have never read such comments from any Spanish political leader,” said the spokesperson. “If Scotland gets its independence, in a legal referendum in the United Kingdom, if that is legitimate then Scotland will claim independence and be accepted by the international community.
“If that happens, then the discussion will be whether Scotland should or shouldn’t join the EU. In that case, Spain would have nothing to complain about at all.”
· Buzzfeed News, 1 February 2017
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/...o-say-scotland?utm_term=.csgNwy4Q0#.xom3mGQlN
“The good news is that it would be a very swift accession negotiation. The sort of rubbish people talk about – back of the queue, behind the Turks – that’s all balls because there is no queue.
"People who are declared eligible to join can join as soon as they’re ready to accept the whole of the acquis. Since the Scots would, presumably ... still be applying something very close to the existing acquis, they'd be in very fast.""
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blueinsa
Guest
Just in. Spain veto not going to happen. As I said.
"SPANISH FOREIGN MINISTER CONFIRMS INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND’S EU STATUS".
"The Spanish Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis has said that Spain would not attempt to stand in the way of an independent Scotland’s membership of the EU, confirming what other leading Spanish politicians have said previously".
"The significant intervention is the latest comment from a senior European figure confirming that Scotland’s position in the EU as an independent member would be relatively straightforward.
This week Lord Kerr, who wrote Article 50, said that an independent Scotland would see “a very swift accession negotiation” and that Scotland would “be in very fast”.
Commenting, SNP MP Stephen Gethins said:
“This is a significant intervention by Spain’s foreign minister which confirms what other Spanish politicians have said previously.
“We can be now absolutely clear – there is no intention of a ‘Spanish veto’ over Scotland’s EU membership.
“This is just the latest indication from a senior European diplomat that an independent Scotland would be welcomed into the EU, after Lord Kerr this week said that we'd be in 'very fast'.
“EU countries want to be constructive with Scotland and will respect the democratic will of the Scottish people if we choose to be independent.”"
Notes:
"Spain drops plan to impose veto if Scotland tries to join EU
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...n-to-impose-veto-if-scotland-tries-to-join-eu
ESTEBAN GONZALEZ PONS MEP, LEADER OF PP’s DELEGATION IN EPP GROUP
(PP, SPAIN’S GOVERNING PARTY)
· Member of European Parliament's Committee on Budgets
· Member of European Parliament's Committee on Constitutional Affairs
Spain would not block a bid by Scotland to rejoin the EU, according to a senior MEP from the country’s ruling party.
Esteban Gonzalez Pons from Mariano Rajoy’s Popular Party said the Catalonian situation was “very different” to that in Scotland, and indicated concerns over the possible breakaway of the province from Spain would not be an obstacle if a newly independent Scotland wanted to join the EU.
But in an interview for the BBC Pons said: “If Scotland wants to come back [into the EU] they have to begin the procedure as would any other country.” Asked if Spain would veto a Scottish application, Pons said: “No. If they are thinking about Scotland the Catalonian situation is very different to the Scottish situation.”
· National, 11 March 2017
FERNANDO MAURA MEP (UNION, PROGRESS & DEMOCRACY), VICE-PRESIDENT OF ALDE GROUP
… when asked if Spain would seek to block an independent Scotland from joining the EU, responded: “No, not at all.” …
… “If Scotland is independent from the United Kingdom, Scotland can negotiate with the European Union to become part of it. If that’s the case, Spain has not anything to do but negotiate in terms of our interests.”
Maura added: “If the UK leaves the EU, Scotland in one moment can be part of the EU if Scotland has independence from the UK. It will be a sovereign state.”
· Buzzfeed News, 1 February 2017
SPOKESPERSON FOR JOSE CANO, VICE CHAIR OF THE SPANISH PARLIAMENT’S EU COMMITTEE
A spokesperson for the vice chair of the Spanish parliament’s EU committee, Jose Cano, told BuzzFeed News that, while the Scottish government is unable to negotiate with any EU member state while it’s part of the UK, he was sceptical of claims that Spain would block an independent Scotland’s future entry.
“I have never read such comments from any Spanish political leader,” said the spokesperson. “If Scotland gets its independence, in a legal referendum in the United Kingdom, if that is legitimate then Scotland will claim independence and be accepted by the international community.
“If that happens, then the discussion will be whether Scotland should or shouldn’t join the EU. In that case, Spain would have nothing to complain about at all.”
· Buzzfeed News, 1 February 2017
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/...o-say-scotland?utm_term=.csgNwy4Q0#.xom3mGQlN
“The good news is that it would be a very swift accession negotiation. The sort of rubbish people talk about – back of the queue, behind the Turks – that’s all balls because there is no queue.
"People who are declared eligible to join can join as soon as they’re ready to accept the whole of the acquis. Since the Scots would, presumably ... still be applying something very close to the existing acquis, they'd be in very fast.""
Catalonia approves of this post lol
Magicpole
Well-Known Member
Catalonia approves of this post lol
Probably. :)
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blueinsa
Guest
Probably. :)
So.....an independent Scotland has the right to apply for membership.
It currently has the worst deficit of any economy in the EU so do you think Germany and France less the money form the UK in years to come are going to ride to the rescue and if they do, are you willing to accept that like Greece etc, you are going to have to agree to every single one of their demands regardless?
Enjoy independence under Brussels ;-)
Magicpole
Well-Known Member
So.....an independent Scotland has the right to apply for membership.
It currently has the worst deficit of any economy in the EU so do you think Germany and France less the money form the UK in years to come are going to ride to the rescue and if they do, are you willing to accept that like Greece etc, you are going to have to agree to every single one of their demands regardless?
Enjoy independence under Brussels ;-)
Yes I do and thank you. We will be fine. And if it's tough we will deal with it.
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blueinsa
Guest
Yes I do and thank you. We will be fine. And if it's tough we will deal with it.
Your happy for Brussels to dictate your budgets/interest rates etc after a hard fought independence?
Come on fella?
Magicpole
Well-Known Member
Your happy for Brussels to dictate your budgets/interest rates etc after a hard fought independence?
Come on fella?
No. Because that won't happen.
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blueinsa
Guest
No. Because that won't happen.
It absolutely will happen because you will be at the very bottom economy wise and you will be in the queue for a handout.
You will be allowed in only on the premise you accept the EU and its federalist future lock, stock and smoking barrel.
Of course all talk of the EU being the deal breaker for Nicola and the SNP could be a huge red herring and convenient political football for her to kick around to get her way for a 2nd indy ref but would she be that cynical?
Imagine if she had no intentions of actually joining the EU?
Magicpole
Well-Known Member
It absolutely will happen because you will be at the very bottom economy wise and you will be in the queue for a handout.
You will be allowed in only on the premise you accept the EU and its federalist future lock, stock and smoking barrel.
Of course all talk of the EU being the deal breaker for Nicola and the SNP could be a huge red herring and convenient political football for her to kick around to get her way for a 2nd indy ref but would she be that cynical?
Imagine if she had no intentions of actually joining the EU?
I will keep a copy of this to show you in a couple of years.
We can have a right laugh about it then.
Ancient Citizen
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 26 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 15,712
They have the right to apply, although how their massive deficit is going to shrink to 3% of GDP may be a stumbling block.
Personally, in common with virtually everyone I speak to, I hope they get independence, and then join the EU.
Straight into the Euro, off the Barnett formula, and no more lectures from the irritating Sturgeon and her ilk.
Ta ta.
Personally, in common with virtually everyone I speak to, I hope they get independence, and then join the EU.
Straight into the Euro, off the Barnett formula, and no more lectures from the irritating Sturgeon and her ilk.
Ta ta.
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blueinsa
Guest
I will keep a copy of this to show you in a couple of years.
We can have a right laugh about it then.
I dont have to wait for the giggles mate.
Your economy is in no fit state and wont be for any serious dream of independence and membership of the EU to ever come to fruition.
If it where to happen it would 100% be under terms that trust me, you will not like one little bit.
Magicpole
Well-Known Member
They have the right to apply, although how their massive deficit is going to shrink to 3% of GDP may be a stumbling block.
Personally, in common with virtually everyone I speak to, I hope they get independence, and then join the EU.
Straight into the Euro, off the Barnett formula, and no more lectures from the irritating Sturgeon and her ilk.
Ta ta.
Under your rules the uk wouldn't get in either. 7%
Have a read and try and factor in what it will be after we don't have any access and no trade deals.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35931968
Ta ta to you too.
smudgedj
Well-Known Member
You need to be honest with yourselves; you're not voting for independence all you want to do is shift from one Union to a larger one where you will have far less control. You think the English treat Scotland bad, wait till Merkel has your balls in a vice.Yes I do and thank you. We will be fine. And if it's tough we will deal with it.
Magicpole
Well-Known Member
You need to be honest with yourselves; you're not voting for independence all you want to do is shift from one Union to a larger one where you will have far less control. You think the English treat Scotland bad, wait till Merkel has your balls in a vice.
I don't think the English treat us bad. That's not what thus us about. England us moving more and more to a centre right position which they are perfectly entitled to do.
We just don't feel that way and if we don't leave then we will always have gov we don't vote for.
That's not acceptable.
Please be advised I am a veteran of Project Fear and have heard all of the doomsday scenarios.
We know it will be difficult. Will brexit be easy?
Under the circumstances I outlined above our vote becomes totally useless.
Bert Trautmanns Helemet
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 10 Jul 2016
- Messages
- 1,367
- Location
- Leaving early to beat the traffic...
- Team supported
- Team Brexit
You need to be honest with yourselves; you're not voting for independence all you want to do is shift from one Union to a larger one where you will have far less control. You think the English treat Scotland bad, wait till Merkel has your balls in a vice.
It will be Greece all over again.
We want independence but want to be controlled by the unelected in Brussels? Really?
The SNP demand for independence is based solely on ideology and not the best long term economic interest of Scotland.
It really is laughable. I really and genuinely do hope that Scotland gets it independence and we will finally be shot of them. Bring it on!
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blueinsa
Guest
I don't think the English treat us bad. That's not what thus us about. England us moving more and more to a centre right position which they are perfectly entitled to do.
We just don't feel that way and if we don't leave then we will always have gov we don't vote for.
That's not acceptable.
Please be advised I am a veteran of Project Fear and have heard all of the doomsday scenarios.
We know it will be difficult. Will brexit be easy?
Under the circumstances I outlined above our vote becomes totally useless.
So stand by your principles and go it alone, be independent.
To jump from one union that has stood the test of time for hundreds of years and does factually benefit Scots to another that you have zero ties too and has an agenda that goes against everything you are currently wanting and fighting for is absolute hypocrisy at best and frankly loony at worst.
You vote for independence and fine, i will say your choice now lets make it work but to then surrender control to Brussels?
Never!
33% of SNP voters and over a million fellow Scots of your share my view as well.
I don't think the English treat us bad. That's not what thus us about. England us moving more and more to a centre right position which they are perfectly entitled to do.
We just don't feel that way and if we don't leave then we will always have gov we don't vote for.
That's not acceptable.
Please be advised I am a veteran of Project Fear and have heard all of the doomsday scenarios.
We know it will be difficult. Will brexit be easy?
Under the circumstances I outlined above our vote becomes totally useless.
Where would you put the EU on a political compass?
Magicpole
Well-Known Member
So stand by your principles and go it alone, be independent.
To jump from one union that has stood the test of time for hundreds of years and does factually benefit Scots to another that you have zero ties too and has an agenda that goes against everything you are currently wanting and fighting for is absolute hypocrisy at best and frankly loony at worst.
You vote for independence and fine, i will say your choice now lets make it work but to then surrender control to Brussels?
Never!
33% of SNP voters and over a million fellow Scots of your share my view as well.
They very well might. That's why we need a ref. To prove if your assertions are correct. I have never said we would definitely win. I said that 62% deserves a vote to see what Union we want.
It should be a walk in the park for the No vote if you are correct.
Nothing to worry about so why not agree to it within two years and out it to bed?
Also if we are such a fucking burden why not let us go?
I think you will find quite soon you needed us more than you were told.