Supporting the Troops

[felixbg]

Not a bad way for them to get a few seats filled. They won't exactly be giving away refreshments or programmes either though, so it isn't completely benevolent.

I'm sorry but are you serious? If you are compairing working in a factory to fighting for our country then there is something wrong with the people on this site.

I for one welcome this gesture

I've had this conversation, so will just quote my previous:

I come from a complete military family. Every male in the family has served in some sort of military, and has done for over a century. We've fought in the Falklands, World Wars (in Europe, Africa and Asia), Ireland (many times), etc. The point been, that I am as close to the military as humanly possible.

Anyway, my point is this:

The glorification of military service is the first symptom of a profoundly sick society.

Military service people in many nations, are classed as 'heroes' and are 'unquestionable', and this is something that really annoys me. During World War 2, the entire continent was under the foot of the German War Machine. They marched on, and on, and on, destroying millions along their way. The soldiers who stood up and fought against them, were absolute fucking heroes and they deserved to be cherished and respected.

People who go to Afghanistan and kill farmers don't. These people aren't heroes. Yes, they risk their lives everyday, so do electricians. The difference between the soldiers today, and the soldiers in the Second World War, is that the current crop are offensive, instead of defensive. The current crop isn't fighting for my freedom, they are fighting for my government's whims. Afghanistan posed no threat to me, to my freedoms, to my society or to my way of life. Seems as so we have gone in to the country and shot every male above the age of 12*, I imagine the next generation might be quite pissed at us, and probably will now pose a threat.

You can never solve a violent problem, with violence.

There is no heroism in offensive war.

*Yes, I'm exaggerating

CLARIFICATION EDIT: This isn't to say that I don't respect our current crop of soldiers, I do, this is to say that I do not class them as heroes. There is a huge difference between respecting and classing as a hero. I class them as doing a hard job, under tough circumstances, but that's it. The UK is currently in a position whereby our freedoms don't need protecting, as we have no invaders, and besides, even if they did fight for our freedoms, what they are actually fighting for, is the freedom for our government to take our freedoms away.

what a good post ... i too come from a military family and agree with everything said here

 

[mancitymick]

I am all for it. Will I get a refund on my ticket bought already..lol

 

[citijen]

While agreeing with Damocles 's very good post I would just like to point out that we are not fighting the Afghans or farmers but the Al Quaeda backed Taliban who most certainly do pose a threat to this and most other democratic countries,just take a look at the attacks on the Pakistani police stations etc.

 

[Nreddishblue]

To Damocles - I don't agree with Afghanistan -I hate it that our government has seen fit to dance to America's tune, I also disagreed with the rest of Blair's foreign adventures, like destroying the infrastructure of Serbia and Iraq.

I still class our soldier's fighting there as heroes though.

The men at Rorke's Drift were heroes, even though the reason's why they were there mat have been suspect, just like Afghanistan.

Concerning World War 2, and our fight for "freedom", lets not forget who declared war on who. We declared war on Poland for Polish freedom (who ended up with Soviet "freedom"). The German "War machine" as you put it, was massively outnumbered, in terms of men, material and industrial output. The soldiers fighting in Afghanistan need our support just as much as those who fought in WWII.

Anyway, good on Rangers again.

 

[mancitymick]

The club should have a regular scheme, whereby any member of the armed services can get 2 free tickets a game (maximum of 3 games a season) on production of an armed services card and with a limit of say 10 pairs of tickets per game.

Great idea but the only problem is you may get a part time sailor (Royal navy Reserves) who has never been away and only uses it as extra pocket money getting the free tickets. He has the same ID card as me and does not state they a reservists. I do not put the TA in this as all of them do deploy to the front line. Think they should just offer tickets to units (Army / Navy and god bless em the RAF)that have returned from overseas operations. These details would be easy to find out through the appropriate PR department

 

[Bovril]

Not a bad way for them to get a few seats filled. They won't exactly be giving away refreshments or programmes either though, so it isn't completely benevolent.

I'm sorry but are you serious? If you are compairing working in a factory to fighting for our country then there is something wrong with the people on this site.

I for one welcome this gesture

I've had this conversation, so will just quote my previous:

I come from a complete military family. Every male in the family has served in some sort of military, and has done for over a century. We've fought in the Falklands, World Wars (in Europe, Africa and Asia), Ireland (many times), etc. The point been, that I am as close to the military as humanly possible.

Anyway, my point is this:

The glorification of military service is the first symptom of a profoundly sick society.

Military service people in many nations, are classed as 'heroes' and are 'unquestionable', and this is something that really annoys me. During World War 2, the entire continent was under the foot of the German War Machine. They marched on, and on, and on, destroying millions along their way. The soldiers who stood up and fought against them, were absolute fucking heroes and they deserved to be cherished and respected.

People who go to Afghanistan and kill farmers don't. These people aren't heroes. Yes, they risk their lives everyday, so do electricians. The difference between the soldiers today, and the soldiers in the Second World War, is that the current crop are offensive, instead of defensive. The current crop isn't fighting for my freedom, they are fighting for my government's whims. Afghanistan posed no threat to me, to my freedoms, to my society or to my way of life. Seems as so we have gone in to the country and shot every male above the age of 12*, I imagine the next generation might be quite pissed at us, and probably will now pose a threat.

You can never solve a violent problem, with violence.

There is no heroism in offensive war.

*Yes, I'm exaggerating

CLARIFICATION EDIT: This isn't to say that I don't respect our current crop of soldiers, I do, this is to say that I do not class them as heroes. There is a huge difference between respecting and classing as a hero. I class them as doing a hard job, under tough circumstances, but that's it. The UK is currently in a position whereby our freedoms don't need protecting, as we have no invaders, and besides, even if they did fight for our freedoms, what they are actually fighting for, is the freedom for our government to take our freedoms away.

This is the first post I have ever felt the need to rant back at. What a pathetic fucking excuse you are to post such political bullshit on this forum. You do not understand nothing that is going on there and the implications that doing nothing will affect people like you sat in your armchair reading the bullshit you are spouting. Who the fuck do you think you are to say British Soldiers are killing farmers, never underestimate your enemy these farmers are worse than your Germans in grey uniform they are non descript and will do anything to claim the life of the people making your life so good they are called Taliban and flood over the border from Pakistan and every other country hell bent on terror. I have served for 24 years in every conceivable shitty dangerous sespit you can imagine but nothing NOTHING can compare to what these young men put their heart and soul into everyday to make your life easy. You Sir are a fuckwit of the highest order and deserve nothing. Go and spread your word in Luton and such places you pathetic individual.

 

[coleridge]

Bovril

I don't know where to start with a reply save that my family [both white and brown] also have many centuries of honourable service in the armed services. There is clearly no use in me suggesting that your mind has been twisted to a bigoted perspective because you are only going to say that I support terrorism, the fight is for our freedom and that you are not a racist. Clearly, the first two are wrong and I'm not sure about the last one.

Neither do I see why sending people to Luton is some form of insult. Furthermore, if you cared to read the news this week, you would be aware that Pakistan is not a country 'hell bent on terrorism' but is a nation and a people suffering from it, and more than most.

Finally, other places only usually become sesspits because some form of armed conflict has begun, and that's when you have seen them.

Hence, I am also a 'Fuckwit of the Highest Order' and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Bovril]

I refuse to get into a slanging match with you fella, to suggest British Soldiers are killing 'Farmers' is an insult of the highest order and to the fallen. And do not go down the Racist route, that couldn't be further from the truth. Nuff Said.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Not a bad way for them to get a few seats filled. They won't exactly be giving away refreshments or programmes either though, so it isn't completely benevolent.



I've had this conversation, so will just quote my previous:

what a good post ... i too come from a military family and agree with everything said here

I respect your opinion, due to your families previous service, recognition of the soldiers in World War II

But, and this is plitting hairs. Afghanistan has posed a threat to you and your way of life. This happened on Sept 11 2001.

The terrorist training camps originated in this region, as they still do. I agree that it has become a political hot potato, but if we had stayed in Afghanistan in the correct numbers from the outset, and avoided the Iraq conflict, we would be a lot further down the line in terms of making ourselves safer.

As it is, Afghanistan is simply the most dangerous theatre of combat in the world, not so much a rallying point for every sicko, as they were hatching their warped ideas well before we went in.

And that is why I consider our current crop of soldiers as heroes.

 

[coleridge]

I refuse to get into a slanging match with you fella, to suggest British Soldiers are killing 'Farmers' is an insult of the highest order and to the fallen. And do not go down the Racist route, that couldn't be further from the truth. Nuff Said.

Fair enough. I suggest that the 'farmers' quote is a little vague. I also find the news confusing. I used to hear that the Taleban reduced Opium production [it's Haram but then so is blowing up Buddhas and persecuting women]. This week, I heard that they were benefiting from bumper Poppy crops. So some farmers may be Taleban-connected and are certainly their Pathan brothers. But then, like my family, the Pathans are also hugely influential in the Pakistan army, protecting democracy [finally!!!] and the Islamic bomb from the worthless terrorists. Hence, it's always more complex than we think and I don't pretend to have the answers. I just see many innocent Pakistanis, police and army being butchered this week in their own cities, seemingly because the assault on South Waziristan is imminent, a key strategic goalfor the 'Alliance'. I respectfully suggest that we are all in this together, whatever the rights and wrongs, and should fight the common enemy of terrorism, rather than using simple 'us and them' terminology. Then we can get on to issues such as who owns what [both land and oil...].